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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#361 - 2017-02-26 23:43:49 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system.


That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong.

The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk.

How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock.


then its also no business if i want to gamble my isk away... but they put a stop to that didnt they.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#362 - 2017-02-26 23:44:53 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins?

It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE?


The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world.

Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions.

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#363 - 2017-02-26 23:44:57 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy.


under that logic, you could claim that about any game
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#364 - 2017-02-26 23:45:47 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins?

It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE?


The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world.

Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions.


Every criminal eventually gets caughts if their crimes get big enough...
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#365 - 2017-02-26 23:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lei YingLu wrote:
That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer.

There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you cyno jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to.

That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#366 - 2017-02-26 23:47:22 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy.


under that logic, you could claim that about any game


Can't think of a another game that puts so much freedom into the players hands. Scamming, ganking, spying, etc etc. Not to mention giving the players the tools to respond to those actions.

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#367 - 2017-02-26 23:47:36 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at.


Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#368 - 2017-02-26 23:48:11 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins?

It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE?


How is it ruining peoples game?

No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn.

You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#369 - 2017-02-26 23:48:13 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system.


That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong.

The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk.

How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock.


then its also no business if i want to gamble my isk away... but they put a stop to that didnt they.


There were other reasons for that, legal ones.

Cripes, but you are uninformed....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#370 - 2017-02-26 23:49:34 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


Every criminal eventually gets caughts if their crimes get big enough...


What do you think is big enough in Eve? We are immortal space-pilots who operate beyond the empires grasp. The only thing that can keep a capsuleer in check is CONCORD and another capsuleer.

Since CONCORD is the punishment, you should be the police then? As the devs clearly have meant since you are able to shoot at criminals freely

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#371 - 2017-02-26 23:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins?

It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE?


The police aren't all-powerfull and they don't catch everyone, no matter how much you want to wish that to happen. Even in the safest countries in the world.

Your primary penalty for doing criminal things in highsec is CONCORD and losing security status. When your sec-status is low enough, operating in highsec gets difficult. The devs even thought about this and let the players have the ability to kill criminals in highsec! Isn't that great? You can be the police if you want to! You seem to prefer that someone else does that for you. For free. With no player interactions.


Id be nice, but jumping from gate to gate as a fleet makes holding the fleet down impossible. Simply because the jump is to fast and invulnerability while warping. You would need a full fleet (50+) to effectively protect your freighter from getting ganked.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#372 - 2017-02-26 23:49:57 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy.


under that logic, you could claim that about any game


Can't think of a another game that puts so much freedom into the players hands. Scamming, ganking, spying, etc etc. Not to mention giving the players the tools to respond to those actions.


The economy....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#373 - 2017-02-26 23:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere.
You don't get to declare stuff as off topic because it doesn't suit your agenda.

You're saying that mechanics need to change because you think that gankers are making an obscene profit through suicide ganking, and that ganking is too easy.

Many of us disagree with you.

The reasons behind why they are able to profit, why it appears to be easy and what could be done to change that without changing the actual mechanics are relevant to the discussion.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#374 - 2017-02-26 23:50:22 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at.


Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.


It is also quite difficult to do anything when you are in warp, so having to constantly warp around also means that you cannot be threat.

Wormholer for life.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#375 - 2017-02-26 23:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Daichi Yamato wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins?

It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE?


How is it ruining peoples game?

No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn.

You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you.

Oh look, no one cares about real life things you say. No, YOU don't cares about it because it makes your ganking life harder. Ofc you don't want it to be harder and will ofc be against it. No suprise there.

Criminals independent of what it is or where it is, should have it more harder the more crimes they do. It's logic101 for you right there.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#376 - 2017-02-26 23:51:33 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at.


Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.


It is also quite difficult to do anything when you are in warp, so having to constantly warp around also means that you cannot be threat.


yeah, not until you need to be a threat for like 10 sec. Then it doesnt matter anymore.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#377 - 2017-02-26 23:52:08 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships?

Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship.

We're talking hours of work here.


Sorry ... you are wrong. Watch some of Kusions gank vids.


Can you link one that isnt hyperdunking? (cause thats band)

No scout. No tackle. No bumper. No Isboxer. Just ganking a freighter solo.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#378 - 2017-02-26 23:52:12 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:

Id be nice, but jumping from gate to gate as a fleet makes holding the fleet down impossible. Simply because the jump is to fast and invulnerability while warping. You would need a full fleet (50+) to effectively protect your freighter from getting ganked.


Last I checked, you cannot warp within 2 seconds on a destroyer and you cannot gank in a frigate, so catching the gank-ships should be possible...

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#379 - 2017-02-26 23:52:19 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at.


Sorry, you are invulnerable as long as your fleet keeps warping around.


No kidding, but what can you do while in warp? Can you target? Can you shoot anything? What harm can you impose on other players?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#380 - 2017-02-26 23:53:45 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins?

It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE?


How is it ruining peoples game?

No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn.

You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you.

Oh look, no one cares about real life things you say. No, YOU don't cares about it because it makes your ganking life harder. Ofc you don't want it to be harder and will ofc be against it. No suprise there.

Criminals independent of what it is or where it is, should have it more harder the more crimes they do. It's logic.


Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online