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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#341 - 2017-02-26 23:31:08 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?


Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2017-02-26 23:32:18 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?


They are treated as criminals, just not as you'd like them to be treated. You can shoot them. The FacPo will chase them, and if they are not fast enough catch and kill them. IIRC gate guns won't defend them if you shoot them first in LS.

The issue is not that they are not treated as criminals, just that they are not treated like you'd like to see them treated.

Please tell us how treating them more harshly will help the game?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#343 - 2017-02-26 23:32:39 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?


How are we not? Lets go to the OP's original statement surrounding the -10 Sec status. At that point ANY pilot may freely engage your ship/pod. In addition to that you are limited in what you are able to fly due to the faction police spawning and chasing you to kill your ship so therefore you have to fly small/fast ships and you also lose the ability to cloak.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#344 - 2017-02-26 23:32:53 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk.

Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts.

And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk.


No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#345 - 2017-02-26 23:33:20 UTC
Barely even reading your posts anymore nightmare. Your posts are that baseless they don't deserve attention. You're going in circles and keep coming back to 'Only gankers don't like this idea. wah wah wah'. So i stop reading after a couple of lines.

Be less childish then maybe i'll address them.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#346 - 2017-02-26 23:34:05 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


Eve is close enough to a true sandbox as possible while keeping the game healthy.

Wormholer for life.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#347 - 2017-02-26 23:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

Removing a target for 15 mins isn't going to help anyone at all.

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#348 - 2017-02-26 23:35:06 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?


How are we not? Lets go to the OP's original statement surrounding the -10 Sec status. At that point ANY pilot may freely engage your ship/pod. In addition to that you are limited in what you are able to fly due to the faction police spawning and chasing you to kill your ship so therefore you have to fly small/fast ships and you also lose the ability to cloak.


And why does it stop there for career criminals who continue to wreck and wreck and wreck. Why shouldnt they have to manage their security status as the OP suggests?
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#349 - 2017-02-26 23:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

Also, you get the criminal timer WHEN you attack, not when the target dies. Have some friends around if you are hauling something expensive and tank the hauler. You won't die to the first shot and now there's plenty of targets to shoot at.

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#350 - 2017-02-26 23:36:59 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk.

Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts.

And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk.


No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him.


Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion.

But you just can't seem to get this point.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#351 - 2017-02-26 23:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

But how does removing a criminal for tiny 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins?

It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#352 - 2017-02-26 23:38:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here.

I wonder why?

Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?


They are treated as criminals, just not as you'd like them to be treated. You can shoot them. The FacPo will chase them, and if they are not fast enough catch and kill them. IIRC gate guns won't defend them if you shoot them first in LS.

The issue is not that they are not treated as criminals, just that they are not treated like you'd like to see them treated.

Please tell us how treating them more harshly will help the game?


It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#353 - 2017-02-26 23:38:50 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


CCP themselves call it a sandbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#354 - 2017-02-26 23:39:13 UTC
Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships?

Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship.

We're talking hours of work here.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#355 - 2017-02-26 23:40:52 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk.

Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts.

And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk.


No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him.


Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion.

But you just can't seem to get this point.


We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#356 - 2017-02-26 23:41:47 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Solo? With how many accounts? And how many ships?

Every ship had to be bought, hauled and fitted. And then every (or almost every target) has to be scouted. Its not like he was randomly ganking freighters with a single ship.

We're talking hours of work here.


Sorry ... you are wrong. Watch some of Kusions gank vids.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#357 - 2017-02-26 23:41:49 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


It would balance out the gankers reward vs risk. It would push more people into nullsec since being a criminal pirate in lowsec would not allow you into highsec unless you repaired your security status, It would limit the number of highsec only gank contracts so that they dont overrun the contract system.


That is not CCP's business. If I foolishly put 10 billion at risk...that is my problem, not CCP's problem. So you are just flat out wrong.

The ganker's reward is somebody else's risk. If you want to reduce the ganker's reward, reduce the other person's risk.

How about this: Nobody can undock with more than 1.2 billion ISK in cargo value. Put more than that in terms of cargo value into your hold and you simply cannot undock.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#358 - 2017-02-26 23:42:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:


I have no issues in killing and losing ships in glorious PVP. You on the other hand seen the have issues with non-concencual pvp, sandbox-mechanics and the whole "you aren't safe in highsec" -ideas that are the main pillars that Eve are built on.

WoW is that way -> You'll like it more.


Stop saying sandbox. It is not a sandbox. It is a brand that gets very frequent updates and changes all the time based on the best interest of the game. There is a reason that gambling got wrecked, roraquals got redesigned, and everything else in this game gets changed. That is not a sandbox, that is a game like another out there in the world. Whenever the good-old-boys club uses the term sandbox, its nothing more than an attempt to discourage changes that they benefit from.


CCP themselves call it a sandbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU


yeah well they are dumb then... Doesn't make it a sandbox.
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#359 - 2017-02-26 23:42:50 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely?

How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal?

This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways.


If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers"

But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins?


That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#360 - 2017-02-26 23:43:11 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
A ganker can only make that much money from ganking because the victim provides that much loot. If freighters did not carry as much, or bothered to protect themselves, gankers would make much less isk.

Do you understand that? The gankers pay is ENTIRELY dependant on the greed and stupidity of their victims. And you are ommitting that gankers have to share payouts.

And AGAIN with the lies. Without any real effort? perhaps for individual gankers. But the collective effort required for ganking freighters is massive. The logistics, the fitting of ships, the scanning, the camping etc etc So much effort in fact that very few groups can pull it off and make good isk.


No its not... Kusion ganked freighters effortlessly all day long as a solo pilot before I started making it not worth it for him.


Your reply in no way refutes anything that Daichi wrote. Kusion's profits are entirely dependent on how much loot is in the freighter. Who put that stuff in the freighter? Kusion? No. The freighter pilot did. You should be at least as upset with the freighter pilot as Kusion.

But you just can't seem to get this point.


We are talking about criminal status and highsec control in this thread and OP, not the targets... take that **** elsewhere.


You brought it up dude. Perhaps you shouldn't post that crap then. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online