Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Just zkill it man... geez

Oh Great Ignorant One....

Zkill gives half the picture. The half where there were actual suicide ganks. It tells us nothing about how many freighters move around HS unmolested.

You are talking out of ignorance. You want to make a change, out of ignorance.

You missed the point.

I haul through the killing fields of the chokepoints and hubs on a regular basis. I don't rely on Concord to discourage people from ganking me. A lot of my gameplay revolves around not being ganked by virtue of being faster, more prepared and harder to kill than other people; I don't fly freighters because that's what 3rd parties are for.

I rely on the choices I make and my knowledge of the opposition, for example:

I have a (r)isk limit on my cargo.

I don't use autopilot, if I need a leak I dock up.

I fit my hauler in such a way that it packs enough tank to shrug off a couple of 'Nado alpha strikes, or 3 Catalysts in a 0.5, has the into warp time of a cruiser and allows me to carry enough value to make the trip worthwhile.

I know who and where the gankers are and have them set to terrible standings, even the one that I'm friendly with.

I know how crimewatch works, I know how gankers work, having actually flown with them and asking questions instead of assuming I know and ignoring those who tell me otherwise.

[*]My overview is unf**ked, and more importantly I use it to stay aware of my surroundings.

First off that is an old kill, it actually predates zkill (I think). Back in time there was no distinction when a player lost a BPO or BPC (not even sure if there is one now). So I find it quite plausible that that kill is wildly overvalued. That you keep harping on this know it is likely false makes you a liar.

Second, Daichi was relatively new to the game back then. We all did stupid stuff when we were new. What makes you look even worse is that there is no evidence Daichi showed up on the forums and whined. And even if he did, which he most likely did not, he learned what the game is about and changed his beliefs and views of the game instead of obstinately insisting the game be changed to suit him.

In short, bringing this up makes you look just downright ridiculous.

So...keep doing.

You're not really making your case that anything is wrong with the infinite loop. Its normal gameplay, much like gate camping, which can also be done on an endless loop.

Given the frequency of ganking compared to freighter travel, and add on top of that how little effort it takes to avoid ganking, i am genuinely astonished that people think ganking is a problem and should be further nerfed.

Gate camping happens in low and null sec. The OP would still take care of gate campers in highsec. Well I shouldnt say take care of becuase you guys might blow up in text but "manage" them properly.

To be clear, the OP started this thread with the view that suicide ganking was too easy. That it was, essentially, too frequent. It is obvious we have little data on how frequent it is, but it is likely not nearly as rampant as the OP says it is.

We do have some information on how likely a prudent freighter pilot is going to be ganked. It is very low. Using RFF annual reports we see it is typically below 1%.

So even the current "permissive" access to HS that is allowed for -10 sec status players there is not an issue with rampant ganking...at least not if you are prudent.

Given this, I see absolutely no issue with suicide ganking. Erich Einstein has nothing to support his position. Nothing. Even pointing to zkillboard does not tell us what we need to know. Zkillboard only tells us the numerator in regards to the rate of ganking in New Eden. It tells us nothing about the denominator.

Now if I were at CCP I'd see if I can get data on both the numerator and denominator. In fact, it would be awesome if somebody like CCP Quandt could query the data and give us a time series (graphically) of freighter ganking in terms of a rate.

I'll also add that Erich Einstein's idea is bad because it is having NPCs do what the players should be doing. The player should be managing their risk in an appropriate manner. In fact, that is a nice thing about EVE. It teaches on, rather quickly and often rather harshly about mismanaging your risk. This is not a game about having CCP hold people's hands via NPCs. The suggested idea, IMO, moves us in that direction where Erich Einstein intended it to or not.

I believe that you can use Red Frog's data but you have to look at much more than that to get the whole picture. Go to their website. Plastered on the front page it reads Burn Jita is in effect. They are well aware that if they bring a freighter/jump freighter to Jita it's probably going to die to the player ran event. I like to call this situational awareness. Beyond that look at Red Frog's FAQ. They have standard operating procedures that they follow. More than likely these things are going to keep them from becoming a loot pinyata.

CCP Phantom also provided us with guidance as far as conduct in Eve HERE


* You consent to PvP when you click "undock".

* You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.

You want to talk about the mechanics being different for those who are career criminals once they go negative to a certain point. That is already in effect. The faction police spawn and will kill your ship if you stay in one place for too long and/or if you are too slow to get into warp, you ship will be blown up.

Other players should not be monitoring people's security status and controlling the baseline level of security that is highsec. That is the job of the NPC's. Players are only responsible for their own safety but that doesnt mean that NPC activity doesnt need balancing.