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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#281 - 2017-02-26 21:28:41 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload.
Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#282 - 2017-02-26 21:29:54 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:

Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason.


If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec.

Love the double-standards here btw! Roll

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#283 - 2017-02-26 21:30:05 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yes. Its part of the game. They are getting away with nothing more than playing the game. You have as much reason to complain about players mining in a never ending loop.


Part of the game that can be improved
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#284 - 2017-02-26 21:32:44 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That isn't what I was questioning Roll

You've repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance of how Crimewatch affect gankers, while asking for Crimewatch to be changed to further affect gankers, as have some of your supporters/sock puppets.

With that in mind, I'm questioning your statement that you know what you're talking about when it comes to ganking.


Question whatever you like man, but Id appreciate it if you discussed the OP without falling off the cliff into other topics not mentioned about in the OP.
So I'm to ignore your statements in this thread that are blatantly wrong, because my questioning of your knowledge as demonstrated by them doesn't suit your agenda?

Got it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#285 - 2017-02-26 21:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:

Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason.


If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec.

Love the double-standards here btw! Roll


Criminals are not banned under the logic of the original post. They would be required to monitor their status if they want to stage in highsec as gankers, that is all. If their status gets to bad, they instantly get wrecked to **** for pissing off faction police and concord so much. Then they say sorry (repair their status through tags / mission running - which also bring more importance to the economy of tags) and be more careful next time.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#286 - 2017-02-26 21:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.

And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.

News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?

Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#287 - 2017-02-26 21:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload.
Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change?




So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick. But up in highsec, you cant even target gankers if they stay in warp unless you use a very specific ship. And to do this, you then need a fulltime fleet or svipuls for each freighter that is trying to make 10mil isk in cheap ass contracts.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#288 - 2017-02-26 21:39:45 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:

Operate in null and you can have it all if you want to kill the **** out of people. But being a criminal comes with certain major trade hub sacrafices on your criminal character. Your account gives you three characters for a reason.


If criminals are banned from highsec, it should be balanced by not allowing you to go to low/null or w-space without a -10 sec status. You can have your law abiding pilot and use the other 2 characters for being in nullsec or lowsec.

Love the double-standards here btw! Roll


Criminals are not banned under the logic of the original post. They would be required to monitor their status if they want to stage in highsec as gankers, that is all. If their status gets to bad, they instantly get wrecked to **** for pissing off faction police and concord so much. Then they say sorry (repair their status through tags / mission running - which also bring more importance to the economy of tags) and be more careful next time.


Criminals can be freely shot in highsec. If you don't think that the faction police is doing their job, why don't you start hunting them ?

Wormholer for life.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#289 - 2017-02-26 21:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
I agree. Ganking could be buffed. Its far too infrequent. And i say that as a miner and freighter pilot.

What sucks is nerfs to ganking happen because carebears just don't like the playstyle and push nerfs despite it promoting crappy, lazy gameplay. And people wonder why the game is failing when all the fun and interactive playstyles of the most populated area of the game are nerfed to hell.

Erich Einstein wrote:


So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick.


Yep it absoultey is good for the game. Destruction drives the economy. Ganking is an engaging activity that entire communities (on both sides) have formed around. It is a massive amount of content that is generated from ganking. And players that are shot at are more likely to stick with the game longer than those that aren't.


edit- and AGAIN with the lies,

Show me where 1-10bil freighters are being ganked every 15 minutes.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#290 - 2017-02-26 21:56:36 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I agree. Ganking could be buffed. Its far too infrequent. And i say that as a miner and freighter pilot.

What sucks is nerfs to ganking happen because carebears just don't like the playstyle and push nerfs despite it promoting crappy, lazy gameplay. And people wonder why the game is failing when all the fun and interactive playstyles of the most populated area of the game are nerfed to hell.

Erich Einstein wrote:


So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game. Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game. Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick.


Yep it absoultey is good for the game. Destruction drives the economy. Ganking is an engaging activity that entire communities (on both sides) have formed around. It is a massive amount of content that is generated from ganking. And players that are shot at are more likely to stick with the game longer than those that aren't.


edit- and AGAIN with the lies,

Show me where 1-10bil freighters are being ganked every 15 minutes.


Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#291 - 2017-02-26 21:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Daichi Yamato wrote:


Show me where 1-10bil freighters are being ganked every 15 minutes.


Just watch my twitch vids, look at zkill under Karma Fleet, Gimma Da Loot, Kusion, Bob Painter, etc....
https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/

Last 7 days biggest kills is easily around 75bil. And then add in all the others not shown in the top 7 list. And this is just KarmaFleet, not any of the others mentioned.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#292 - 2017-02-26 21:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Danika Princip
Erich Einstein wrote:


Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path.



Six years ago.

We all did dumb things six years ago.


And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#293 - 2017-02-26 22:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Its not about the targets or what they are doing. Its about what the gankers are allowed to get away with in a never-ending loop. The only thing gankers have to worry about is a 15min timer, which usually goes unnoticed since it takes time to reload.
Reshipping takes a few seconds, because gankers already have several replacement ships assembled and ready to go, what about the other 14 minutes and change?




So you are saying that mining highsec freighters (1-10bil every 15min) in HIGHSEC is good for the game.

1: It's not 1-10B every 15 minutes, the loot fairy and Murphy's law make sure of that; anti ganking try to curtail it further, but they've yet to form a cohesive organisation and an approach which is effective.*

2: Hisec is as much a PvP area as any other area of the game, CCP have said this repeatedly.

3: It might not be good for the blood pressure of those that take ganks personally, but it's certainly good for the game. The whole game is driven by conflict and destruction, especially the parts of it that mainly take place in hisec.

Quote:
Its a never-ending loop of free plex that diminishing all the other methods of making isk in the game.
Have you any proof that it's a never ending loop of free PLEX?

Quote:
Now if this were happening in nullsec, bubbles would shut this down so quick.
A place where people put effort into ensuring their own safety is safer than a place where people do not; not shocked.

In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety.

*Much as I rib them for their failures, I hope that anti ganking do get it together and take it to the gankers; it would create content for both groups. Gankers could do with more opposition, but from players, not game mechanics.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#294 - 2017-02-26 22:04:13 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Ganking could be buffed.... please explain??? LUL The fact that you keep trying to point out that you are a miner a freighter pilot ensures that you are not. You lost a 3+bil domi in null. Thats not a freighter pilot and miner career path.



Six years ago.

We all did dumb things six years ago.


And why are you ignoring the fact that the 15 minutes thing is literally only happening this weekend, for the burn jita event?


I assure you, it is not only happening because of burn jita... check zkill before you make comments like that.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#295 - 2017-02-26 22:05:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


In Eve safety is your responsibility, even in hisec. The varying levels of NPC interaction due to PvP are there to provide variety in the terms of engagement, they are not there to provide safety.



Yeah but their are also mechanics that prevent you from doing anything you want in the game as well. Its called balance.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#296 - 2017-02-26 22:15:44 UTC
Ive never lost a freighter or a barge. Doesnt mean i dont fly them. I lost a domi in null in 2011! you can see more recent loss mails since then. I keep saying it because it has repeatedly been claimed that the only people against ganking nerfs are gankers. When that bull **** stops, i'll stop.

The amount of freighters ganked is depressingly low compared to the amount of freighters that get through unscathed. Why is this bad? glad you asked.

The safer space is, the less engaged the player base are. They dont have to earn their rewards, they just press button and get bacon. They dont have to make friends because everything is so easy it can be done solo, there is not enough reward to actually try. (take a look at how many freighters are flying through Uedama on auto pilot...the bare minimum of engagement). These players that dont make friends and dont face threats are more likely quit the game sooner.

Allowing more ganking to happen makes hauling and mining less safe. This encorages players to pay attention and think about what they are doing, read PLAY THE GAME. Players who make smart choices and put in effort thrive in dangerous environments because their effort is rewarded. Players faced with adversity reach out to other players for help. They form bonds by sharing a common enemy. This is the kind of play we should be promoting because the players who experience it are the most likely to stick with the game.



if its happening outside of burn jita, show me.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#297 - 2017-02-26 22:17:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?


No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec.


My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor.


Where it commit criminal acts does not matter. Its still criminal in lowsec, you just dont get wrecked by concord for it.


Back tracking noted....still a bad idea. If a player is not a threat to HS players I don't see why the game should impede his progress, let other players try and do that.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#298 - 2017-02-26 22:20:10 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Ive never lost a freighter or a barge. Doesnt mean i dont fly them. I lost a domi in null in 2011! you can see more recent loss mails since then. I keep saying it because it has repeatedly been claimed that the only people against ganking nerfs are gankers. When that bull **** stops, i'll stop.

The amount of freighters ganked is depressingly low compared to the amount of freighters that get through unscathed. Why is this bad? glad you asked.

The safer space is, the less engaged the player base are. They dont have to earn their rewards, they just press button and get bacon. They dont have to make friends because everything is so easy it can be done solo, there is not enough reward to actually try. (take a look at how many freighters are flying through Uedama on auto pilot...the bare minimum of engagement). These players that dont make friends and dont face threats are more likely quit the game sooner.

Allowing more ganking to happen makes hauling and mining less safe. This encorages players to pay attention and think about what they are doing, read PLAY THE GAME. Players who make smart choices and put in effort thrive in dangerous environments because their effort is rewarded. Players faced with adversity reach out to other players for help. They form bonds by sharing a common enemy. This is the kind of play we should be promoting because the players who experience it are the most likely to stick with the game.



if its happening outside of burn jita, show me.


What part of "the threat will still be there" dont you understand. The OP is just interested in terminating the infinite-loop, improving the security status importance, and balancing the amount gankers take in a given amount of time.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#299 - 2017-02-26 22:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erich Einstein wrote:

Quote:

Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low.


This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita.


No I think you are lying. It is right there in their annual reports. So either you are lying or RFF is.

Edit: Look at what the OP has to do here to try and justify his point. When somebody points to actual data from a third party not even involved in the discussion. Data complied probably a year ago...he has to claim it is a lie. There is a word for this: dogmatist. When one is presented with data that contradicts your beliefs or hypothesis you should change your beliefs/hypothesis not dismiss the data. There is another name for data: facts.

The OP is a liar.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#300 - 2017-02-26 22:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:


Back tracking noted....still a bad idea. If a player is not a threat to HS players I don't see why the game should impede his progress, let other players try and do that.


If you do criminal things you are a threat to highsec... Its says so right on your security status. lol Thats a completely separate issue from what the OP.