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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Beeflee Filee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8721 - 2017-02-26 07:59:49 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Cloaky camping is a problem as it can be an AFK activity but still effect countless players.



So can buy and sell orders and you don't even have to be logged in for those... Roll

Oh, and they probably affect far more players. Every player after all interacts to some degree with the economy.

Edit:

Beeflee Filee wrote:
It is an activity for people who only like to annoy the hell out of people.


Same with 0.01 ISK price changes. Those should be banned too. In fact, once I put a sell order everyone else should be banned from making a price change! After all it negatively affects my game. Roll


I almost did not want to respond to this because half way I feel it is troll. But to make it short the topic you are writing about is probably written about in some other thread. I see the ground for it being discussed just not in this thread.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8722 - 2017-02-26 08:16:01 UTC
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Cloaky camping is a problem as it can be an AFK activity but still effect countless players.



So can buy and sell orders and you don't even have to be logged in for those... Roll

Oh, and they probably affect far more players. Every player after all interacts to some degree with the economy.

Edit:

Beeflee Filee wrote:
It is an activity for people who only like to annoy the hell out of people.


Same with 0.01 ISK price changes. Those should be banned too. In fact, once I put a sell order everyone else should be banned from making a price change! After all it negatively affects my game. Roll


I almost did not want to respond to this because half way I feel it is troll. But to make it short the topic you are writing about is probably written about in some other thread. I see the ground for it being discussed just not in this thread.


You object to "AFK Play that effects countless players" why do buy and sell orders not qualify? Buy and sell orders will work if you are AFK, and it effects "countless" players. So if AFK cloaking is bad, why is AFK market activity not bad?

I am pointing out the following:

You have set for some criteria as for why AFK cloaking is "bad". I am pointing out another in game activity that has the same criteria, so why is it not "bad" too.

Others have pointed out that it takes something that gives a distinct advantage to a group of players and turns it against them.

So it seems to me your reason for AFK cloaking being bad is itself bad.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Beeflee Filee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8723 - 2017-02-26 08:26:34 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Cloaky camping is a problem as it can be an AFK activity but still effect countless players.



So can buy and sell orders and you don't even have to be logged in for those... Roll

Oh, and they probably affect far more players. Every player after all interacts to some degree with the economy.

Edit:

Beeflee Filee wrote:
It is an activity for people who only like to annoy the hell out of people.


Same with 0.01 ISK price changes. Those should be banned too. In fact, once I put a sell order everyone else should be banned from making a price change! After all it negatively affects my game. Roll


I almost did not want to respond to this because half way I feel it is troll. But to make it short the topic you are writing about is probably written about in some other thread. I see the ground for it being discussed just not in this thread.


You object to "AFK Play that effects countless players" why do buy and sell orders not qualify? Buy and sell orders will work if you are AFK, and it effects "countless" players. So if AFK cloaking is bad, why is AFK market activity not bad?

I am pointing out the following:

You have set for some criteria as for why AFK cloaking is "bad". I am pointing out another in game activity that has the same criteria, so why is it not "bad" too.

Others have pointed out that it takes something that gives a distinct advantage to a group of players and turns it against them.

So it seems to me your reason for AFK cloaking being bad is itself bad.


Okay first of all I really do not like to discuss this in this thread.

My one point is it should be discussed els where.

Just to give one feed back to it, I feel that if sells could not happen while AFK it would ruin most games also eve. It would be so hard for players actually getting what they need because some players are not online during their online time.

I will say this if you try to make it about this topic which only have the part about AFK in it then I will not respond again as this will divert the threads real objective which is to talk about the AFK cloaking.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8724 - 2017-02-26 08:39:13 UTC
Beeflee Filee wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


You object to "AFK Play that effects countless players" why do buy and sell orders not qualify? Buy and sell orders will work if you are AFK, and it effects "countless" players. So if AFK cloaking is bad, why is AFK market activity not bad?

I am pointing out the following:

You have set for some criteria as for why AFK cloaking is "bad". I am pointing out another in game activity that has the same criteria, so why is it not "bad" too.

Others have pointed out that it takes something that gives a distinct advantage to a group of players and turns it against them.

So it seems to me your reason for AFK cloaking being bad is itself bad.


Okay first of all I really do not like to discuss this in this thread.

My one point is it should be discussed els where.

Just to give one feed back to it, I feel that if sells could not happen while AFK it would ruin most games also eve. It would be so hard for players actually getting what they need because some players are not online during their online time.

I will say this if you try to make it about this topic which only have the part about AFK in it then I will not respond again as this will divert the threads real objective which is to talk about the AFK cloaking.


Why? What is the problem. You seem to object to lots of things without much reason. Do you have...you know...actual reasons?

My point is your reasoning stinks because it can be applied to other things in game. Things you like, but then you are like, "Oh, I don't want to discuss that here". Maybe you should come up with a reason besides, "I don't like it."

Here is a hint, I'm not trying to turn this into a discussion of buy/sell orders. I'm pointing out your reasoning stinks as for why AFK cloaking is bad.

You can either: come up with a better reason, or you can point out a flaw with my use of buy/sell orders. Saying, "I don't want to talk about it," just doesn't sound convincing....sounds like you don't have any actual reasons beyond, "I don't like it."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8725 - 2017-02-26 08:43:26 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
As my objective is to hunt and blow them up, so asking for an AFK flag which will enable me to work out their actual activity times will enable me to focus on getting actual content out of them by baiting them when they are active.


IOW, you want CCP to coddle you and hold your hand and make sure that you have free intel on everyone and don't ever have to spend time without a kill. What else do you want, a "this ship has a cyno fitted" flag so you can identify bait ships? A "this ship has WCS fitted" flag so you don't waste time trying to scan down someone who you can't tackle? Maybe CCP could just skip the flags and go straight to the end result, and give you a "warp this player to me and destroy their ship" so you never have to feel the pain of deciding to hunt someone and going home empty-handed.

Linus Gorp wrote:
AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on-end is a lame tactic that I do not endorse, but I'm also smart enough (unlike the likes of Dracvlad) to understand why it has come to this state.


Whine whine whine. The only thing "lame" about AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on end is the lame alliance that "own" the system being so pathetic that they can't organize a proper response even with days or weeks to prepare. If an AFK cloaker shuts down your system for days then perhaps your failure of an alliance should go back to highsec.


You really have got your head up your rear end.

Well, if your reading and comprehension skills were good enough you would understand that two important tools for getting this intel were removed, the first was due to skill injectors making it so campers could install a fresh camper with no record with cyno 5 and the ability to use a covert cloaky ship without any issue. The watch list change removed the ability to watch the potential hot droppers. So an AFK flag created by an OA which can be attacked it giving back the intel, and it is not an I win type thing because people can game it which is fine.

Thanks for making stupid points which enabled me to throw my suggestion and the reasoning back into this thread. I certainly do not want a warp to as I rather like cloaks as they are, I do not want something that decloaks them, nor do I want special probes, nor fuel nor cap issues, I merely want something to give me a chance to work out when they are AFK.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick in attacking Linus Gorp, that player is a very good hot dropper, and in spite of the back and fro between us that point about actively hunting and not mindlessly leaving someone 24/24 7/7 is something I respect, my alliance also hot drops, but they do not blanket camp, which I am totally fine with.

My alliance has taken its space through effort and fighting, it also kills campers and hot droppers, which I rather like, anyway keep up making those get back to hisec comments, your tears make me happy...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8726 - 2017-02-26 09:49:42 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on-end is a lame tactic that I do not endorse, but I'm also smart enough (unlike the likes of Dracvlad) to understand why it has come to this state.


Whine whine whine. The only thing "lame" about AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on end is the lame alliance that "own" the system being so pathetic that they can't organize a proper response even with days or weeks to prepare. If an AFK cloaker shuts down your system for days then perhaps your failure of an alliance should go back to highsec.

Should have read the full post and comprehend what I wrote, dumbass.

I'm not living in nullsec and if I were, I wouldn't give a **** about cloaky campers. I know how to deal with them.
Instead, I am one of those players HUNTING nullbears. But guess you were too hard on tunnel vision to get that.

You're just as much a pathetic underdeveloped failure as Dracvlad, just the opposite site of opinion.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#8727 - 2017-02-26 10:04:46 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:


I'm not living in nullsec and if I were, I wouldn't give a **** about cloaky campers. I know how to deal with them.



"I never programmed a single ****! But I know how to deal with that!"
U just show us that your posts are just pure trolling, and all that around "dumbass" stuff;
Pathethic prick!
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8728 - 2017-02-26 10:11:07 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:


I'm not living in nullsec and if I were, I wouldn't give a **** about cloaky campers. I know how to deal with them.



"I never programmed a single ****! But I know how to deal with that!"
U just show us that your posts are just pure trolling, and all that around "dumbass" stuff;
Pathethic prick!

And you show yet again how dumb you are.
Just because I don't live in nullsec right now does not mean I never lived there.
In fact, I spent years upon years in nullsec.

Unlike you, I have experienced both playstyles (although I'm far more invested in cloaky faggotry) and unlike you, I know how to deal with cloaky campers and never cried to CCP "waaaah waaaah waaaah make the baddies go away I want to rat in peace and perfect safety without having to put in any effort"

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8729 - 2017-02-26 10:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Linus Gorp wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on-end is a lame tactic that I do not endorse, but I'm also smart enough (unlike the likes of Dracvlad) to understand why it has come to this state.


Whine whine whine. The only thing "lame" about AFK cloaking a system for days or weeks on end is the lame alliance that "own" the system being so pathetic that they can't organize a proper response even with days or weeks to prepare. If an AFK cloaker shuts down your system for days then perhaps your failure of an alliance should go back to highsec.

Should have read the full post and comprehend what I wrote, dumbass.

I'm not living in nullsec and if I were, I wouldn't give a **** about cloaky campers. I know how to deal with them.
Instead, I am one of those players HUNTING nullbears. But guess you were too hard on tunnel vision to get that.

You're just as much a pathetic underdeveloped failure as Dracvlad, just the opposite site of opinion.


Failure, well lets check, worth about 70bn, check, all my combat toons have very high efficiency ratio, check, never lost a non-combat ship to a hisec gank, check, never been successfully hot dropped check, (the only time I lost a ship was going to help someone in Stain, well there was also Hurricane that I traded for a Arazu once in lowsec Solitude, but that is not success on their part.) I had the best FC of Stain Empire try to hot drop me three times and fail, Oh I forget losing a BC to a carrier in Stain once but I went for the Thorax, on the other hand I did blow up a Goon bait ship and got away from two carriers, that was fun. I could go on and on if you want...., shall I go on with my failures...

Actually I have had a fair number of hot drops on me when in combat fleets, however not one single successful drop on me when ratting, and I was actually ratting when being camped because it annoys the hell out of them, but they can hot drop a Thrasher all they want and a blank clone, makes me laugh, they never did, lazy buggers.

I think I have killed well over 30 campers in my time, some in amusing situations, my favourite was being on a Goon Tengu kill mail with my bait Badger II.

But you called that person correctly at least. Lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8730 - 2017-02-26 10:35:50 UTC
Hey Dracvlad. Whatever it is you're posting must be some more whining in response to me. I blocked you a few days ago and I'm not wasting any of my precious time reading your non-sense crying, so if it's something in response to me, spare yourself the effort. I don't give a **** about it.

https://mopam-eve.org/screenshots/2017-02-26_11-36-05.png

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8731 - 2017-02-26 10:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Linus Gorp wrote:
Hey Dracvlad. Whatever it is you're posting must be some more whining in response to me. I blocked you a few days ago and I'm not wasting any of my precious time reading your non-sense crying, so if it's something in response to me, spare yourself the effort. I don't give a **** about it.

https://mopam-eve.org/screenshots/2017-02-26_11-36-05.png


A couple of days ago and yet you replied yesterday. I am perfectly fine with you blocking me, and before I block you in return lets point out that what you do in terms of active hunting is totally fine with me, my issue is solely with the AFK part and I find it amusing that you picked a fight with me when you have the same attitude to blanket AFK camping as I do.

I wish you all the best and I can say that I have been in fleets with you a few times, which is kinda funny, I must activate that account again and do it again. o7 hugs and kisses....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8732 - 2017-02-26 12:22:55 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


all my combat toons have very high efficiency ratio


Its always funny how people will say this but will fail to provide any evidence.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8733 - 2017-02-26 13:02:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


all my combat toons have very high efficiency ratio


Its always funny how people will say this but will fail to provide any evidence.

It's not like it would prove any combat capability anyway. Killboards don't really have any meaning beyond e-peen bragging.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8734 - 2017-02-26 15:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Linus Gorp wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


all my combat toons have very high efficiency ratio


Its always funny how people will say this but will fail to provide any evidence.

It's not like it would prove any combat capability anyway. Killboards don't really have any meaning beyond e-peen bragging.


It is on Zkillboard, one of my combat toons is reporting 99% dangerous, whatever that means... Shocked But I detailed more than my killboard stats, it was baltec1 deciding to focus on that part so if you have a beef with it slap him around the face with a wet pilchard, he deserves it. I stopped feeding kill reports to any killboards a while back if that helps...

But feel free to say that I have no idea what I am doing, makes me laugh a lot. Roll forum loser..., I can't call you a loser in game as you do know what you are doing in game...


So let us get back to the matter in hand rather than you focussing on baltec1 focussing only on killboards and you being a special forum snowflake blaming me for it.

The issue is AFK play period, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK

And to make sure you get it the issue is:

A F K

Which means AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Do you get it!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8735 - 2017-02-26 18:22:14 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
The issue is AFK play period, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK

And to make sure you get it the issue is:

A F K

Which means AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Do you get it!


botting is illegal. that's the only way you can AFK play the game. by definition you aren't playing the game if you are AFK. do you get it?
mkint
#8736 - 2017-02-26 18:35:27 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The issue is AFK play period, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK

And to make sure you get it the issue is:

A F K

Which means AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Do you get it!


botting is illegal. that's the only way you can AFK play the game. by definition you aren't playing the game if you are AFK. do you get it?

Being logged in and showing up on local means you are having an effect even if you are AFK. PI is an AFK game. Most of the market is an AFK game. Moon goo is an AFK game. There are lots of the ways the game rewards you for NOT playing that have nothing to do with botting. The question about any of them is balancing the pros and cons for the game as a whole.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8737 - 2017-02-26 18:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
mkint wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The issue is AFK play period, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK

And to make sure you get it the issue is:

A F K

Which means AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Do you get it!


botting is illegal. that's the only way you can AFK play the game. by definition you aren't playing the game if you are AFK. do you get it?

Being logged in and showing up on local means you are having an effect even if you are AFK. PI is an AFK game. Most of the market is an AFK game. Moon goo is an AFK game. There are lots of the ways the game rewards you for NOT playing that have nothing to do with botting. The question about any of them is balancing the pros and cons for the game as a whole.


Excuse me, but what is the person I have blocked trying to say. Quite rightly I have to go get my PI from a POCO, which means I am ATK, I also have to take it to market to sell it which is ATK. Therefore I have an impact when I do something ATK, just as cloaky camping has an impact because I have done something ATK or the threat of doing something ATK, so that person does not get it. Nothing to do with botting either. Anyway nicely pointed out.

The issue is AFK play period, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK, AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK AFK

And to make sure people get it the issue is:

A F K

Which means AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Do people get it?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8738 - 2017-02-26 20:27:23 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Well, if your reading and comprehension skills were good enough you would understand that two important tools for getting this intel were removed, the first was due to skill injectors making it so campers could install a fresh camper with no record with cyno 5 and the ability to use a covert cloaky ship without any issue. The watch list change removed the ability to watch the potential hot droppers. So an AFK flag created by an OA which can be attacked it giving back the intel, and it is not an I win type thing because people can game it which is fine.


Whine whine whine. The watch list change happened because CCP (and many players) believed that it was too easy to use it for intel purposes, and that free intel was bad for the game. The idea that CCP needs to replace it with an equivalent intel tool is insane. You aren't getting that ability back because its removal was a deliberate decision.

As for looking at character dates, why should you be able to know what ships a character can fly? A 2017 character might be a cyno threat, a 2003 character might be a 500k SP newbie that spent most of its life unsubscribed. Sorry if that risk is too scary for you, but you don't deserve to have that information handed to you for free.

Quote:
I merely want something to give me a chance to work out when they are AFK.


You have something, it's called paying attention. If they're cloaked and inactive for a long period of time they're probably AFK. You won't ever be 100% sure, but having to make guesses and take risks is part of life in EVE.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8739 - 2017-02-26 20:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well, if your reading and comprehension skills were good enough you would understand that two important tools for getting this intel were removed, the first was due to skill injectors making it so campers could install a fresh camper with no record with cyno 5 and the ability to use a covert cloaky ship without any issue. The watch list change removed the ability to watch the potential hot droppers. So an AFK flag created by an OA which can be attacked it giving back the intel, and it is not an I win type thing because people can game it which is fine.


Whine whine whine. The watch list change happened because CCP (and many players) believed that it was too easy to use it for intel purposes, and that free intel was bad for the game. The idea that CCP needs to replace it with an equivalent intel tool is insane. You aren't getting that ability back because its removal was a deliberate decision.

As for looking at character dates, why should you be able to know what ships a character can fly? A 2017 character might be a cyno threat, a 2003 character might be a 500k SP newbie that spent most of its life unsubscribed. Sorry if that risk is too scary for you, but you don't deserve to have that information handed to you for free.

Quote:
I merely want something to give me a chance to work out when they are AFK.


You have something, it's called paying attention. If they're cloaked and inactive for a long period of time they're probably AFK. You won't ever be 100% sure, but having to make guesses and take risks is part of life in EVE.


The watch list was removed because it was stopping people from using their supers and titans because they were all on a watch list, it enabled more use of supers and titans and has been a major success in taht people now use them, but it had a negative impact elsewhere, such as hisec mercs who actually hunted finding it too difficult, and of course people being cloaky camped cannot do a watch list on the hot droppers and WH people can not do a watch list on the person who came into their hole. I am massively in favour of the watch list removal, but am still able to talk about the impact of it where it has negatively impacted the game. That is called balance, for example I would allow locator agents the ability to say if a player is online too, even though I know that the watch list changes has enabled people to play during war decs, even if the fear was in their mind more than anything else. Local works and a scout quite well enough for that.

You don't get that the age of a character was a good indication of whether the toon could drop a covert Cyno before skill injectors, really? Seriously you did not work that one out, facepalm on steroids... Again an important part of the intel in whether you are going to be dropped or not.

So you have no idea about balance, obviously...

I have observed a lot of cloaky campers in my time and am rather good at getting their normal playing time. I mentioned a ratting Raven earlier, nice enough to hot drop, but actually very cheap and quite an effective ratter with T1 missile launchers and a smattering of T2 stuff. Do you understand that part?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8740 - 2017-02-26 21:13:35 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
The watch list was removed because it was stopping people from using their supers and titans because they were all on a watch list, it enabled more use of supers and titans and has been a major success in taht people now use them, but it had a negative impact elsewhere, such as hisec mercs who actually hunted finding it too difficult, and of course people being cloaky camped cannot do a watch list on the hot droppers and WH people can not do a watch list on the person who came into their hole. I am massively in favour of the watch list removal, but am still able to talk about the impact of it where it has negatively impacted the game. That is called balance, for example I would allow locator agents the ability to say if a player is online too, even though I know that the watch list changes has enabled people to play during war decs, even if the fear was in their mind more than anything else. Local works and a scout quite well enough for that.


IOW: "I want more free intel, EVE is too hard if I can't have instant notification if my enemies are online". The watch list was supposed to be a tool for seeing when your friends are online so you can start a conversation, not an intel tool for keeping track of your enemies. The replacement is scouting and paying attention, we don't need an AFK flag to give free intel back.

Quote:
You don't get that the age of a character was a good indication of whether the toon could drop a covert Cyno before skill injectors, really? Seriously you did not work that one out, facepalm on steroids... Again an important part of the intel in whether you are going to be dropped or not.


I understood perfectly well what you said, I simply disagree with you about the need for that information. Why should you have CCP coddle you and hand you intel on whether you're going to be hot dropped or not? And what's next in your demands, a public character sheet so you can see exactly how well your potential target could have their ship fitted? Or would you like to have a list of all the players in a fleet with your target, so you can check if they have a hot drop ready?

EVE is a dangerous place and sometimes you get surprised by a hot drop that you didn't expect. Deal with it.

Quote:
I have observed a lot of cloaky campers in my time and am rather good at getting their normal playing time. I mentioned a ratting Raven earlier, nice enough to hot drop, but actually very cheap and quite an effective ratter with T1 missile launchers and a smattering of T2 stuff. Do you understand that part?


Then congratulations, you've solved the problem and don't need an AFK flag or any other nerf to AFK cloaking.