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Srsly, something has to be done about incursions.

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David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2012-01-21 15:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So last night, trying to get reality out of my head so I could go to sleep instead of on a rampage, two topics were in my head:

Bots and RMT
Incursions and Vanguards and the ISK fountain

Then it occured to me: CCP is trying to kill botting.


You see, if RMT is serious business, and there are mafioso types running it, then changing game mechanics to hit botting really hard (such as removing local in 0.0) and perhaps all but cripple it might earn CCP a horses head in their beds. Those Icelandic ponies are cute and we would hate to see that happen.

Then there are those ISK pumps.

If ISK flowed like a mighty river from every pore of game content, would there be a need for bots and RMT? Sure there are some slugs out there who are so lazy that running incursions for an afternoon to pay for a week of PVP (or less if they JUST HAVE TO HAVE an uber-pimped ship to camp and blob noobs with) is still too much time, but they could comprise a small minority of players.


If the ISK pump was shut off, this could mean the only way to get large quantities of it would be through bots or RMT. The RMT operations could own the game and with more money at stake against doing anything about it, the chances of RL violence increase. If someone is making say a few thousand on RMT and you nerf their methods, no big deal. A few hundred thousands and some guys named Vito and Anthony show up to lean on you (a little).

Or I am paranoid.


I am no fan of ISK pumps. In my opinion, it's dumb to let the Sansha mother sit there while the sites are farmed. That mother should have a despawn timer and if it's not destroyed, NOBODY gets their ISK and LP rewards for that incursion. This would make things very very interesting.

Speaking of CSM representation - as an explorer in this game, and no dedicated ship for it like everybody has for the way they play, I feel like a Ron Paul supporter in RL watching a pole result where Ron is 2nd place and the media shows 1st, 3rd, 4th.... Spank makes a good point about the CSM on this that I cannot deny if CSM representation were directly related to the location of the best ISK pumps.




Removing Local will NOT affect bots.......... bots dont look at local the way humans do, they work in a totally different way.... they work by running server / client update checks when someone jumps into a system it forces the server to update all clients that are attached to that system... the bot programs see this forced update as a flag that someone has jumped into system and align out only then does it check to see if its friend or foe

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#302 - 2012-01-21 16:16:32 UTC
Razor Blue wrote:

Incursions are the one and only ISK faucet that cannot be botted. Therefore it is, and should be, the most rewarding group pve activity.

If CCP downgrades incursion payouts, i would take that as insult towards real players


Non sequitur.

I can farm hi sec anomalies (another unbottable thing) with 12 friends and kill all the NPCs, should I get 5B to split with them for that?

I can farm C1 WH anomalies (another unbottable thing) with 12 friends, should I get 5B to split with them for that? Hey it's even more dangerous space to boot!


Razor Blue wrote:

If CCP downgrades incursion payouts, i would take that as insult towards real players


I am sure much self entitled REAL PAYING CUSTOM3RZ felt insulted when they nerfed L4 missions 3+ times (see the threads of the time), 0.0 anomalies got nerfed, insurance got nerfed, nanos got nerfed, < add here a dozen other nerfs >.

CCP served them a golden cup of HTFU.

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Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2012-01-21 17:22:26 UTC
Exploration and wormholes are not PURE ISK faucets like Incursions, infact they generate very little isk, in form of blue loot and bounties. Instead they generate salvage, materials, deadspace loot which prices are driven by supply and demand

Again, compared to other isk faucets (missions, belt ratting, anomalies) , Incursions cant be botted.

Incursions generate only isk. Sure, they generate LP too, but LP-store is massive isk sink and items are priced by supply and demand.

And missions got big boost 9 months ago.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#304 - 2012-01-21 17:32:05 UTC
Still not sure how L4's got nerfed. The isk and LP payouts going up and easier standings normalisation more than countered the salvage change.

Course not everyone looks at the bigger picture.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#305 - 2012-01-21 17:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Razor Blue wrote:
Exploration and wormholes are not PURE ISK faucets like Incursions, infact they generate very little isk, in form of blue loot and bounties. Instead they generate salvage, materials, deadspace loot which prices are driven by supply and demand

Again, compared to other isk faucets (missions, belt ratting, anomalies) , Incursions cant be botted.

Incursions generate only isk. Sure, they generate LP too, but LP-store is massive isk sink and items are priced by supply and demand.

And missions got big boost 9 months ago.



Incursions are hybrid ISK faucet like the other ISK faucets. Every ISK faucet is potentially dangerous and must be checked.

Also the "Incursions generate only isk" is the reason they must be checked even closer, because they indeed generate way too much of it compared to other ISK + LP / loot PvE.

Finally, I have yet to see a botted L4 mission. I have probed loads of them and not once the guy did not react on my arrival.

Maybe some overtanked Dominix can AFK most missions but I have not found completely unmanned Domis so far.

If L4s can be botted then it's not a mainstream thing like i.e. bot mining.


Caellach Marellus wrote:
Still not sure how L4's got nerfed. The isk and LP payouts going up and easier standings normalisation more than countered the salvage change.

Course not everyone looks at the bigger picture.


Read the old forums at around the nerfs dates, they were exactly identical to those days incursions nerf threads you see today.

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Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-01-21 17:48:02 UTC
From what i've been hearing, I believe something is being done.
"If."
Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2012-01-21 20:09:56 UTC
Working as intended

Instead of complaining on forums, that is what people should be trying to do. Incursions do not generate too much ISK. Though, i wouldnt mind if CCP rolls the OTA back to the hardmode.

I havent seen yet hard data published by CCP of how much Incursions really inject ISK. So until someone provides that data, i claim that Incursions are nowhere near of the ISK injected by missions and anomalys.
The D1ngo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2012-01-22 18:05:39 UTC
The D1ngo wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
You're replying to all the wrong things. Why bother with highsec 4s, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with lowsec plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with 0.0 ratting or anomalies or plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. The risk:reward ratio is entirely screwed and it falls to us, the people who are out there in low-sec and null-sec risking our ships on a daily base to say hey, why can these people make hundreds of millions of isk with close to no risk (oh no, suicide blackbirds, what will we do? oh right guardians have a slot for eccm and have ridiculous base Radar strength) under the close protection of CONCORD?


DO:

If you see something wrong in the game address it from the game side.

I hear you saying these guys are making too much money but I don't hear you saying you are going to assemble a group of like-minded players and conspire to wreck their "isk press".

They have the ability to "farm" the incursions because from the looks of it they built up a community. Destroy it. Infiltrate. Train logi with some friends, work your way in and harvest tears.

Gank them. If you don't bring enough DPS. Bring more DPS next time.

Be the next The Mittani...make a name for your self interdicting incursions.

DON'T:

Look at what other players are doing and complain to a higher authority that its not fair that is just the other side of the QQ coin...




I just want to quote myself here...

Then I want to inform all of you that engaged in the incursion QQ that you are a bunch of whiny little biatches whose impotency is high lighted by the fact that ONE organization Brick Squad rectified your problem.

Don't whinge to momma CCP when someone is pissing in your cornflakes...undock and take care of it! Good on you Brick Squad!!!

Less crying more flying next time

P.S. This just in! Tears are tears...they know no borders
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2012-01-22 23:10:20 UTC
The D1ngo wrote:
The D1ngo wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
You're replying to all the wrong things. Why bother with highsec 4s, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with lowsec plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with 0.0 ratting or anomalies or plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. The risk:reward ratio is entirely screwed and it falls to us, the people who are out there in low-sec and null-sec risking our ships on a daily base to say hey, why can these people make hundreds of millions of isk with close to no risk (oh no, suicide blackbirds, what will we do? oh right guardians have a slot for eccm and have ridiculous base Radar strength) under the close protection of CONCORD?


DO:

If you see something wrong in the game address it from the game side.

I hear you saying these guys are making too much money but I don't hear you saying you are going to assemble a group of like-minded players and conspire to wreck their "isk press".

They have the ability to "farm" the incursions because from the looks of it they built up a community. Destroy it. Infiltrate. Train logi with some friends, work your way in and harvest tears.

Gank them. If you don't bring enough DPS. Bring more DPS next time.

Be the next The Mittani...make a name for your self interdicting incursions.

DON'T:

Look at what other players are doing and complain to a higher authority that its not fair that is just the other side of the QQ coin...




I just want to quote myself here...

Then I want to inform all of you that engaged in the incursion QQ that you are a bunch of whiny little biatches whose impotency is high lighted by the fact that ONE organization Brick Squad rectified your problem.

Don't whinge to momma CCP when someone is pissing in your cornflakes...undock and take care of it! Good on you Brick Squad!!!

Less crying more flying next time

P.S. This just in! Tears are tears...they know no borders


So your idea to solve the problem is to go shoot [Insert Random Alliance/Corp] and the problem will be solved.

You sound like the type of moron that brings sand to the beach.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#310 - 2012-01-22 23:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Andski wrote:
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:
Andski wrote:
if you can't understand the core of the problem, 150M/hr in high-sec when you can't even make that running -1.0 anoms with infinitely more risk, you are dumb


it is fair to make that isk because we fly expensive ship with strangers, the real risk of being suicide ganked, the npcs are strong with superier AIS and we have to compete with other players in for isk (incursion pve really is PvEvP!!)..


oh man we only have to deal with awoxers, hotdrops and bubbles out in 0.0, i'm glad we don't have to deal with the risk of being suicide ganked or killed by NPCs with slightly more complex AI


well you have to deal with it if you chose to .. so basically you dont have to do anything

Some stupid hotdrop on one ratter somewhere .. who give a **** ?
What are you talking about is an deploy or home defense .. therefore your choice..
Not to mention that you got very very powerful weapon in your arsenal, called you can see who is the enemy.

In high sec. you dont chose anything, **** happens and you dont have any passive tool to foresee it.

Just to get it straight.. not that i care..

well apart the meta-gaming part on alliance/coalition level ..
the life in null sec for regular joy is quite straight forward, and safe if he knows what he is doing.
nate555
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#311 - 2012-01-23 01:48:12 UTC
I use to a little incursions but with them super full now a basi flyer like myself doesnt find money in it. So I have returned to lvl 4 missions and I am very happy with what I am doing. Yesterday I made 30 million in 3 hours or so. Shire it may not get me a lot of ism but the is not what I am after. It's the lp
Spineker
#312 - 2012-01-23 01:51:39 UTC
L4s have been nerfed for years. Just one thing off the top no faction loot at all anymore besides junk from a junk ship in Worlds Collide.
The D1ngo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#313 - 2012-01-23 16:50:38 UTC
Brumi Viri wrote:
The D1ngo wrote:
The D1ngo wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
You're replying to all the wrong things. Why bother with highsec 4s, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with lowsec plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with 0.0 ratting or anomalies or plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. The risk:reward ratio is entirely screwed and it falls to us, the people who are out there in low-sec and null-sec risking our ships on a daily base to say hey, why can these people make hundreds of millions of isk with close to no risk (oh no, suicide blackbirds, what will we do? oh right guardians have a slot for eccm and have ridiculous base Radar strength) under the close protection of CONCORD?


DO:

If you see something wrong in the game address it from the game side.

I hear you saying these guys are making too much money but I don't hear you saying you are going to assemble a group of like-minded players and conspire to wreck their "isk press".

They have the ability to "farm" the incursions because from the looks of it they built up a community. Destroy it. Infiltrate. Train logi with some friends, work your way in and harvest tears.

Gank them. If you don't bring enough DPS. Bring more DPS next time.

Be the next The Mittani...make a name for your self interdicting incursions.

DON'T:

Look at what other players are doing and complain to a higher authority that its not fair that is just the other side of the QQ coin...




I just want to quote myself here...

Then I want to inform all of you that engaged in the incursion QQ that you are a bunch of whiny little biatches whose impotency is high lighted by the fact that ONE organization Brick Squad rectified your problem.

Don't whinge to momma CCP when someone is pissing in your cornflakes...undock and take care of it! Good on you Brick Squad!!!

Less crying more flying next time

P.S. This just in! Tears are tears...they know no borders


So your idea to solve the problem is to go shoot [Insert Random Alliance/Corp] and the problem will be solved.

You sound like the type of moron that brings sand to the beach.


Oh? Which part of my statement did you have a problem with?

Was it the part where I suggested that players who identify "problem" in the game try to find a "solution" for it themselves before coming to the forums to demand that CCP apply a nerf?

(notice I never indicated one way or another whether I thought incursioners make too much isk, I have no idea and don't care, I simply applaud players doing sand box things in a sandbox game)

or

Is it that you are more of an entitlement guy that thinks that whining to perceived authority figures instead of handling an issue yourself is the new chic?

Lastly, please explain your sand to the beach analogy..this moron doesn't see the relevance....
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2012-02-01 20:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
Incursions are fine the way they are. Tears this and that is just nonsense. Play the game you guys wanna play.

edit: sorry for the noobish necro guys Ugh

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2012-02-01 22:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Andski wrote:
what I don't get is concord protection in incursion systems

why yes the system is full of pirate NPCs but concord reacts all the same, what

This. Remove CONCORD from hisec incursions! RP wise it doesn't make any sense. Roll

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Momma Lovebone
Doomheim
#316 - 2012-02-01 23:20:59 UTC
I didn't used to like the idea of incursions paying out so much. Now I really don't care because they are putting tons of money into the hands of people who have no idea what they're doing. Just one pimp tengu with a incursionboob pilot pays me enough to plex my account for months.


Please grind more isk and only come to low or null for "pew pew" after you have 2 billion worth of crap that you think will make you better....no need to practice just grind away little monkeys you'll eventually get bored and find your way to me.