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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8681 - 2017-02-24 17:54:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Another forum warrior, yawn..., people who AFK cloaky camp generally do not have the balls to entosis something or blow up defended Citadels and stuff like that. Also that Sin and covert cyno Tengu were rather nice kills off of a bait Skiff. You know nothing....


Killed the first keepstar, also killed the second.

Meanwhile you have done nothing of note ever.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#8682 - 2017-02-24 18:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:


Are you being camped? Great, go set bait and have some fun. Its a video game
Is your super being watched 24/7? maybe you should re-locate or invest in an alt character for your account so you can play safely until your super is safe again?



Such a great idea mate!
Let's change a game cause of annoying idiot who went to work and been sitting whole day cloaked in system decide to weary you or he is doing what he want on his 4th account - denying u taking a pleasure of game;

Get a fart cause your brain gives a **** ideas...rly..



They are not denying you anything though, you are simply refusing to play because of the 'possibility' that he might be active. If you truly believe he is at work, why are you here and not out ratting?


A train do not deny you stay at rails - u are just afraid to be killed by it; - thats your logic



I'm not entirely sure i understand what you wrote, but i think i get the idea. Allow me to summarise:

You can still undock, it is just at greater risk to yourself, if you are being camped consistently, consider relocating. They can not be in every system. Or lay a trap for them. Just dont blame them for being part of the game, they arent actually unhealthy, only your paranoia of death is.

Nothing boosts ratting ticks more than trapping a 2.7b isk black ops and gettin 800m in loot.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8683 - 2017-02-24 18:03:21 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


A train do not deny you stay at rails - u are just afraid to be killed by it; - thats your logic


What exactly is stopping you from having a defense fleet like everyone else out there?
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#8684 - 2017-02-24 18:05:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


A train do not deny you stay at rails - u are just afraid to be killed by it; - thats your logic


What exactly is stopping you from having a defense fleet like everyone else out there?



We are finally approaching a point where this conversation need not continue. Preparation and initiative resolve the issues of cloaky campers, if you are struggling to find a soloution to campers 'Naye' i strongly suggest that you consult player help channels for experience from older or more experienced players.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8685 - 2017-02-24 18:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Zockhandra wrote:
Why would any AFK flag be an issue anyway. Regardless of the points made about peoples intellect here, or how 'unfair' they think it is, camping comes down to the following:

-You are not safe in null-sec
-Choosing to rat in null-sec is a RISK which may yield a REWARD
-Choosing to rat in null-sec means that people may try to keep cloaky eyes on you in preparation for an attack

-Being cloaky camped does not prevent you from ratting, it only scares you into thinking that you will die
-Ratting while being cloaky camped carries greater risk, but also greater reward if you plan to counter-drop
-Null-sec is not designed to be predictable or safe or profitable, it's like New-America. Theres a big dream, with lots of hopeful people, and there are lots of bandits looking to pick on your findings and equipment.


Cloaky camping might be annoying, or disconcerting. But it by no means stops you from undocking.

You can't justify complaining about people who have to travel through hundred of bubbles, intel scouted pipes and who loose ships just to find something to shoot, when you cannot show the same initiative or bravery out in the unknown.

In summary, the only people who actually create problems for null-sec people ratting, is the ratter.

Are you being camped? Great, go set bait and have some fun. Its a video game
Is your super being watched 24/7? maybe you should re-locate or invest in an alt character for your account so you can play safely until your super is safe again?

Intuition is the key of sandbox game play, use it more it makes the game more fun.



The AFK flag is because I don't want to waste my time trying to bait some lazy feck who is asleep or at work and that gives me a chance to work out the likelihood of when I should be baiting the loser.

By the very fact anyone is in 0.0 means that they accept consequences or losing ships....

No it does not stop me from undocking, but as I keep pointing out until I am blue in the face I do not want to reward lazy AFK play and that is the key issue.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#8686 - 2017-02-24 18:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Naye Nathaniel
Zockhandra wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


A train do not deny you stay at rails - u are just afraid to be killed by it; - thats your logic


What exactly is stopping you from having a defense fleet like everyone else out there?



We are finally approaching a point where this conversation need not continue. Preparation and initiative resolve the issues of cloaky campers, if you are struggling to find a soloution to campers 'Naye' i strongly suggest that you consult player help channels for experience from older or more experienced players.


No need bcz of what?
U got your point of view, which is stupid :) and i've got mine;
U wont pull me on your side as u barelly know nothing about it or u are the one involved in the afk cloaking mechanic;
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8687 - 2017-02-24 19:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
AFK cloaking is a symptom, not a problem. Treating the symptom won't make the problem go away.


AFK cloaky camping is a problem, it is not a symptom. The problem lies in people not playing the game when affecting others.


Unlike afk miners, afk cloakers do not affect the game in any way. They do not interact with the game at all. The only "problem" is in your head, being a risk-averse coward. Without local, you wouldn't even know he was there and all the automated intel tools that rely on local wouldn't work and we wouldn't have to resort to afk cloaking to counter local and automated tools.

AFK cloaking is a symptom of instant local chat and automated tools. It is not the problem.
No system, however deep in blue space, should ever be 100% safe, but that is exactly what the great majority of nullsec is.


You are wrong;
They affect YOUR Gameplay (the afk cloakers);
Same as your idea to deleting local - would that solve a problem with "cloakers"? you said "yeah it does!" i said (in your language) - u are total dumb if you really think that way -

Examples for brainless:

1.
12 on local
All blue
Miners, Ratters, anomalers (doing anomalies)
There is nothing which affect "their" game;

2. - Camper in system -
13 on local
12 blue 1 neutral or red/orange
Miners - get docked
Ratters - get docked
Anomalers - get docked
Still u think it doesn't affect their gameplay? or only it does not affect yours?
And it doesnt matter if its AFK or NOT it's still CLOAKED netural - which force OTHERS to change their behaviors;

3. - No local
Miners - mining...
Ratters - ratting...
Anomalers - killing...
but all of them plays in in a stress - they need to have covered all gates, means there have to be at last 2 - 3 guys which sacrifice their TIME to ALL THE TIME watch the gates to systems;
Not to mention there should be someone who check anomalies EACH HALF HOUR if there is no Wormhole appear;

Thats DEFFO a great solution which wouldn't affect any of their gameplay... (ironic)


Seriously you guys just wimp out and dock up in scenario 2? That's it? You don't all jump in procuror's and skiffs and go mine in one big group. You don't all fleet up and run anomalies? Sure your ISK/hour goes down, but that is better than 0 ISK/hour. And if you are on comms chatting and talking...my god it might actually become fun vs. a grind. And hey, if they drop you...you can have even more fun.

And yeah, 3 will likely push some players back to HS. That is why I'd like to see something like the observatory array in game so that players can regain some elements of local.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8688 - 2017-02-24 19:15:05 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


i am, and i say AFK cloaky camper isn't a problem. when 12 dudes, who can actually take a system given if they're competent, dock up because of 1 freaking neutral is just so sad.


Oh mate u are so great in short thinking! :)
1-st of all - Eve is not only a Sov null sec;
Its low sec, high sec and npc null sec too - u know that there is that kind of space in eve? if not, no problem - im here to help you!

2-nd - So if someones get into "our" home system, and cloak and fly from planet to planet, from safe to safe, (which u cant see as he wont show up on dscan) - u are:

a. baiting him (LOL WATCH THAT CHANGES YOUR BEHAVIOR as u were doing something else before!)
b. trying to scan him down (LOL MATE REALLY U WANT TO SCAN A CLOAKED SHIP? well guess what - U CANT)
c. going back to busines and literally... DIE cause u were not enough patient to wait 10 hours keep baiting him or u have to leave the system, pocket, or your mates logged out - so you also had to do it...

which ends.... as it made an impact of your game - what a person here trying to makes as believe that AFK Cloaking - do not;


You should not be in NS. Seriously. First off nobody is free from having their game "impacted". Second, somebody imposing costs on you is totally fair in EVE. This is not like most other games. The concept of fair here is very limited. Was the other guy cheating? No. Then it's fair. Did they have 10 guys for your every 1? Did he cheat? Yes and no. Okay, fair. There is a saying in EVE if you find yourself in a fair fight you are doing it wrong.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8689 - 2017-02-24 20:45:04 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The AFK flag is because I don't want to waste my time trying to bait some lazy feck who is asleep or at work and that gives me a chance to work out the likelihood of when I should be baiting the loser.

By the very fact anyone is in 0.0 means that they accept consequences or losing ships....

No it does not stop me from undocking, but as I keep pointing out until I am blue in the face I do not want to reward lazy AFK play and that is the key issue.


In other words you are lazy and want CCP to protect you rather than do it for yourself.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8690 - 2017-02-24 21:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Dracvlad wrote:
[quote=Nat Silverguard]But keep away from talking about taking sov in terms of a single idiot cloaky camping, he does not actually make any effort to take sov, he is merely after easy kills and all this rubbish about can't defend your sov is rubbish because that is not the intent of the cloaky afk camper.


"Sov" as defined by whose name is on the map is about ego fluffing. "Sov" as defined by "who has control over the system" is much more interesting, and if your pathetic alliance gets shut down by a single AFK cloaker then the AFK cloaker has the relevant control over the system. If your alliance wasn't a garbage-tier waste of server space all the AFK cloaker would be able to do is sit there cloaked forever, or attempt a kill and get executed mercilessly by your combat fleet.

The solution is not to nerf cloaks or add an AFK flag or whatever, it's to stop being a garbage-tier alliance that loses control of their systems every time an unarmed covops frigate appears in local.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8691 - 2017-02-24 22:06:11 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
[quote=Nat Silverguard]But keep away from talking about taking sov in terms of a single idiot cloaky camping, he does not actually make any effort to take sov, he is merely after easy kills and all this rubbish about can't defend your sov is rubbish because that is not the intent of the cloaky afk camper.


"Sov" as defined by whose name is on the map is about ego fluffing. "Sov" as defined by "who has control over the system" is much more interesting, and if your pathetic alliance gets shut down by a single AFK cloaker then the AFK cloaker has the relevant control over the system. If your alliance wasn't a garbage-tier waste of server space all the AFK cloaker would be able to do is sit there cloaked forever, or attempt a kill and get executed mercilessly by your combat fleet.

The solution is not to nerf cloaks or add an AFK flag or whatever, it's to stop being a garbage-tier alliance that loses control of their systems every time an unarmed covops frigate appears in local.


Lol what more can one say at such an ignorant post...

I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8692 - 2017-02-24 23:58:19 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Lol what more can one say at such an ignorant post...

I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.



Disrupting money making activities of an enemy alliance is a tactical goal.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8693 - 2017-02-25 00:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Ahhh the casual arrogance and dismissiveness of Dracvlad.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#8694 - 2017-02-25 00:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Lol what more can one say at such an ignorant post...

I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.



Disrupting money making activities of an enemy alliance is a tactical goal.



It's not exactly an ignorant post either, it's a relevant point.

Eve has always been a game thats entertained underhanded moves and allowed players to force situations to evolve. Afk cloaking is by fact - a mere extension of sandbox progression.

There are normally two common goals for cloaky campers:

A: collect intel on supers and allow traps to be set on other-wise unassailable objects (such as a pos)
B: Collect some Dank killmails because someone took a risk, and got unlucky/was not prepared enough

Their presence in system does not impact you anymore than if it were in highsec, it is your own fear and lack of tactical knowledge which has limited you to a "docking only" response. Thats not to say that it is your fault however, many alliances tell people to dock when neautrals show up as an easy way of saying "dont give them a killmail"

If you can not even acknowledge that other peoples ideas might be viable, then a forums debate is likely not a healthy kind of discussion for you to partake in.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8695 - 2017-02-25 00:42:33 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Lol what more can one say at such an ignorant post...

I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.



Disrupting money making activities of an enemy alliance is a tactical goal.



It's not exactly an ignorant post either, it's a relevant point.

Eve has always been a game thats entertained underhanded moves and allowed players to force situations to evolve. Afk cloaking is by fact - a mere extension of sandbox progression.

There are normally two common goals for cloaky campers:

A: collect intel on supers and allow traps to be set on other-wise unassailable objects (such as a pos)
B: Collect some Dank killmails because someone took a risk, and got unlucky/was not prepared enough

Their presence in system does not impact you anymore than if it were in highsec, it is your own fear and lack of tactical knowledge which has limited you to a "docking only" response. Thats not to say that it is your fault however, many alliances tell people to dock when neautrals show up as an easy way of saying "dont give them a killmail"

If you can not even acknowledge that other peoples ideas might be viable, then a forums debate is likely not a healthy kind of discussion for you to partake in.


That's Dracvald for you. Claim the other poster is ignorant, with that stupid smilely with apparently makes everything okay because if you respond negatively you of course are the jerk. And then fail to actually address the actual claim.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8696 - 2017-02-25 01:31:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.


Could you at least pretend to pay attention here? I said very clearly that the AFK cloaker doesn't take sov in the sense of doing all the entosis stuff and putting their name on the map. What they do is take control of the system, deciding what is and isn't allowed to happen there. And so you have a situation where the Iraqi information minister is saying "there are no reds in our system, we hold sov" while enemy troops are occupying everything.

The simple fact here is that if your alliance can't prevent an AFK cloaker from padding their killboard with easy kills in the systems you "own" your alliance does not control those systems. And it's probably a garbage-tier alliance that should be disbanded and sent back to highsec. Stop whining about AFK cloaking and start being better at EVE.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8697 - 2017-02-25 09:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I repeat, the AFK cloaky camper is not able to take sov and nor does he want to, he is merely there for easy kills to pad his killboard and to make himself feel good at something while making as little effort as he can get away with.


Could you at least pretend to pay attention here? I said very clearly that the AFK cloaker doesn't take sov in the sense of doing all the entosis stuff and putting their name on the map. What they do is take control of the system, deciding what is and isn't allowed to happen there. And so you have a situation where the Iraqi information minister is saying "there are no reds in our system, we hold sov" while enemy troops are occupying everything.

The simple fact here is that if your alliance can't prevent an AFK cloaker from padding their killboard with easy kills in the systems you "own" your alliance does not control those systems. And it's probably a garbage-tier alliance that should be disbanded and sent back to highsec. Stop whining about AFK cloaking and start being better at EVE.


That is silly, because PL did a dread bomb on Goons and destroyed some Supers which was incorrectly stated as a cloaky AFK cloaker by baltec1 in this thread when it was a bait dread. Does that mean that PL now own that system in Delve? I guess under your warped logic that is the case.

You seem to want to make some point about the alliance I recently joined as a line member with the objective of getting involved in interesting fleet battles, I don't need to defend them against some loser skulking in a 5 man corp with a pitiful number of kills, their record speaks for itself including trashing a combined Goon and Soviet Union fleet that out-numbered them 2 to 1 and not losing a single ship, and two or three days ago one hot dropper lost his Sin and covert cyno Tengu on a bait skiff. Those guys are rather good and are rather dominant in this TZ which is why I joined them, for me it is a new situation where I am in a group which during their prime time are the strongest entity in their TZ. So much for your ignorance.

My personal views on this are based on my past experiences in other alliances, and in line with changes like watch list removal, and having blown up a fair number of campers, in all that time those campers never dropped BLOP's when I baited them, but I killed a fair few Stealth Bombers, or laughed them out of the system when they failed to kill a kiting Raven three times. I have been camped numerous times as a solo or small group player by some fairly major entities too, and seen the impact it had on less able players.

As my objective is to hunt and blow them up, so asking for an AFK flag which will enable me to work out their actual activity times will enable me to focus on getting actual content out of them by baiting them when they are active. In the mind of contempt minded players like you it is all about safe ratting etc., for me it is knowing when I can take action. In the past before skill injectors people had a long time train to get covert cyno's this enabled the people being camped along with the watch list to get some pretty good intel to assess when and who would drop and that is gone, that is why the AFK flag is important because it gives back intel that was lost due to those changes.

So keep throwing silly ignorant insults, because it is rather amusing and has absolutely no impact on me.

An AFK flag is the best approach by a long way and does not impact cloaks, simple and clean and rewards attentive players.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8698 - 2017-02-25 10:05:38 UTC
Can we petition to get Dracvlad's name changed to Supercilious?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8699 - 2017-02-25 10:32:07 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
You are wrong;
They affect YOUR Gameplay (the afk cloakers);
Same as your idea to deleting local - would that solve a problem with "cloakers"? you said "yeah it does!" i said (in your language) - u are total dumb if you really think that way -

Examples for brainless:

1.
12 on local
All blue
Miners, Ratters, anomalers (doing anomalies)
There is nothing which affect "their" game;

2. - Camper in system -
13 on local
12 blue 1 neutral or red/orange
Miners - get docked
Ratters - get docked
Anomalers - get docked
Still u think it doesn't affect their gameplay? or only it does not affect yours?
And it doesnt matter if its AFK or NOT it's still CLOAKED netural - which force OTHERS to change their behaviors;

3. - No local
Miners - mining...
Ratters - ratting...
Anomalers - killing...
but all of them plays in in a stress - they need to have covered all gates, means there have to be at last 2 - 3 guys which sacrifice their TIME to ALL THE TIME watch the gates to systems;
Not to mention there should be someone who check anomalies EACH HALF HOUR if there is no Wormhole appear;

No, they don't. They don't have any effect on my gameplay beyond being there. When I then chose to dock up, that is nothing said afk cloaker forced me to do just by being there. That is risk-averse nature. Fear that something might happen that I do not want to deal with.
The afk cloaker is playing mind tricks with you and all that happens beyond that point is entirely on you and not on him.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8700 - 2017-02-25 10:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dracvlad wrote:


That is silly, because PL did a dread bomb on Goons and destroyed some Supers which was incorrectly stated as a cloaky AFK cloaker by baltec1 in this thread when it was a bait dread.



This is the hero dread in question, notice the lack of a cyno.

Do please tell us how this bait dread cyno'ed in the fleet.