EVE General Discussion

Theoretical physics accepts that there may be more than one universe, it also accepts that the rules in those other possible universes may not be the same rules that apply in ours.

While nobody knows how wormholes work, or that they even exist, Einstein's theory of general relativity mathematically predicts the existence of wormholes. It has long been theorised that a wormhole is a tunnel with a black hole at each end, the Eve gate being one such wormhole.

It's possible that the Eve Gate connected 2 distinct universes with different rules of physics, and that the differences in those rules allows the Concord communications nodes to propagate FTL communications allowing instant notification of people who enter a system.

FTL communications are not new to science fiction, and in at least one series of books are down to the manipulation of gravitational waves.

I dont agree.

-Just cos you have no clue you passed another person, doesnt mean they havent detected you.
-Players currently safe-up when an unknown/hostile shows up on Local, and can begin doing so even before the arrival.
(That certainly isnt good for conflict/interaction/content).

It is my position, that Local intel subdues and dampens opportunity for conflict, interaction and content generation.

In a discussion with Malcanis here on this board on this topic, he said he would endorse removing Local not only from Player Sov, but all of EVE, provided d-scan was augmented, and cloaked ships where adjusted accordingly.

The only place we don't need local with absolute certainty is in the four major trade hubs.

Several times CCP has said (last at Eve Vegas) they want to change local to not be an intelligence gathering device. No mention of how they would accomplish that.

Yes, they will lose time on empty systems, but they will gain time and advantage on unsuspecting populated systems, as the locals may not be aware of their presence and dont hide, and dont have the advantage of local data indicating incomers in advance of their arrival.

As it is now, if you pass through an empty system as indicated by Local, that also means there is no-one there to report you to intel. This is especially true if you penetrate through WH.

Even more time is saved vs the current situation of having to ascertain whether a Local ID is already safe. Furthermore, as to "how far" a roaming gang can go, without Local, that gang can potentially penetrate far deeper than now, as they will remain undetected via simply Local.

Do you see what I mean?



Noooooooooo. They head to LS and especially NS because its full of juicy, complacent, bling targets that even despite the obvious Ĺocal data, still dont save themselves, whereas j-space denizens a) usually dont fly as bling b) are pathologically paranoid and pay constant attention.



No, this is false. Player Sov should be actively watching their gates already. Even though Local provides data on arrivals, it does not provide data on what ship they are in. As to alts, they already exist. And even post-change, f you have an alt on a gate, you have to actually monitor that alts viewpoint to ascertain an arrival, as well as sub that alt (or host a twitch stream with view of that alt as an alpha whilst you are not playing, or pay/train noobs to watch it for you, etc) A far simpler, commonplace, and rational option, is to gatecamp your own peripheral gates.



Sure, waiting for someone to explode and yell is certainly a valid alarm system.
But that would still be the case even if Local was removed, hence not an argument against it.

This basically assumes that Local is simply removed, that there is no defender's advantage at all, and that the net change here is very much in favor of the attackers.

The first two seem unlikely based on CCP's few statements on the matter and the fact that they haven't simply ripped it out completely already. The second seems unlikely in any kind of remotely balanced changes to other systems to accommodate the removal of local. The best the people active in a system could reasonably lose is advanced warning from picket ships several systems out, and probably not even that since those rely as much on gate-fire as anything else for a warning.

Generally speaking I don't see this making life easier for hunters, and if by some chance it does by any significant margin then people will adjust their play to account for the increased risk, probably in ways that more than cancel out the gains for the hunters, like clustering together more or simply not participating in activities that have had their risk significantly impacted.



The operative word here is full, not "juicy", "complacent", or "bling" all of which are present in Wormholes, you just have almost no chance of running into anyone at all in wormholes because systems can't be checked at a glance, and it takes a while to check a system for activity and then roll to a new one if there is none. The idea that everyone in Wormholes is frugal (lol) or always vigilant and alert is a fantasy someone has sold you, I can tell you from my own experience and the stories I've heard from others that it's far from true.



It doesn't really matter what you think people should be doing, I'm telling you that no one is going to sit and watch a gate or patrol around between different systems as a main activity. It's boring, unrewarding, and offers almost nothing in the way of gameplay.

The difference between no local and the current system is that if you remove local without introducing a more active surrogate system then *the only way* to gain intel is through alt use. If that happens then only people who engage in these sorts of activities will be people with alts. That's toxic to the health of the game and CCP are generally pretty careful to try and avoid circumstances where having an alt does something you can't reasonably do without one.

Also you don't need to do anything with your alt to monitor a gate beyond have it cloaked up (or not even that), do "look at" on the gate, and turn the volume up on that client and listen for gate fire. Doesn't even require that the screen be visible. When you hear the gate you alt-tab over to see what's up.

It's the rant of people that hate their criminal timer being broadcast to everybody in system. Or people trying to avoid gate camps. Or cloaked cyno-droppers trying not to to announce in local that an alliance fleet is about to show up.

It's still not a gameplay issue

I though local in those systems was to hear the screams and smack talk of hapless victims? It is also useful to use to taunt those less worthy!

Really? You realise real life doesnt have local and yet we have a very rich history of conflict centred around controlling territory.

You could still control it just wouldnt be ridiculously easy for your bears to avoid raiders and your pvprs would be less likely to blueball without exact counts of hostiles from every system you have an alliance member in.

EvE would be about tactics and strategy not just strategy. That could only be a good thing.