Player Features and Ideas Discussion

See, now I'm questioning if you've ever actually taken a psych class, because if you had you'd know that while Freud is often considered the father of modern psychology a lot of his theories have been debunked and most of the rest have changed so much he'd hardly recognize them. The main thing that Freud did was take psychology mainstream and legitimize it, it's mostly been shaking off his influences since then.

It's certainly not pseudo science and it absolutely doesn't work how you seem to think it does... so yeah, way to prove my point, you've clearly demonstrated your ignorance on two subjects now.

Any chance of circling back to the original topic? No?

Wow somebody went full SJW mode. A sub-class of victims? Right because SP is everything.

But in this world what is somebody who lives among the stars and cannot die?

It is funny you reject the lore, but then want to use other parts of lore to try and justify your nonsense.

Think about it for just a second. Lets get rid of the "we are gods" stuff.

I'm a Gallente Capsuleer. I first trained Gallente ships. But as I went about my business in game I came into contact with other Capsuleers. Some I forged alliances with and in so doing we saw a benefit to exchange information. I gave him the secrets to certain Gallente technology and he did the same with Amarr (or Minmatar or Caldari). As alliances shifted and came and went I learned how to fly a variety of faction ships, especially when I moved to NS where the notion of allegiance to a particular faction is just not even considered (Except for Provi-Block maybe).

NS Empires don't give a rat's ass about the HS empires. Is it all that outlandish that a NS empire that has strong knowledge of say Gallente and Minmatar ships might welcome and even go out of their way to recruit Amarr pilots or Caldari pilots to obtain not only skilled pilots, but the technology they bring?

You act like the HS factions are the only factions. They aren't NS player empires are by far contribute to more content. And that is where this technology would be exchanged. Why might a Gallente pilot might be willing to pass on knowledge of Gallente ships and weapon systems? To enhance his standing with that NS empire.

There...that is one possible background as to why we have all these different ships at our fingertips. And look, nothing about gods. Just plain on fashioned politicking.



Step out of your role playing foolishness even if you have to put down the lube.

The limitations on F2P are not unlike most other games. In WoT if you don't want to pay, fine but you'll progress much, much more slowly. If you don't want to pay you'll have less access to gold ammo.

The limitations on F2P are there for business reasons. Make F2P too good and current paying customers will stop paying. F2P customers have no incentive to start paying. And in the end there isn't enough revenue to keep the game going unless you introduce more and more micro-transactions designed to monetize the player base and provide true pay2win benefits.

So, pardon me, but you are talking out of your ass.



Depends...if he does kill you. A well fit VNI can have a pretty impressive passive tank and with the drones do some pretty good damage. Saw one take down a stratios with little issue. Even after I landed on field and engaged him I left with a number of modules burnt out. Did he die? Sure, but he put a Goddamned great fight. Was he an alpha? IDK, but that guy probably had far less SP than me and I have think he did a damn fine job.

I know you have turned into a full on crybaby here.

Seriously, SP are NOT everything. A player who has over 100 million SP can die to a group of players each of whom only a say 20 million SP.

I have...let me loo... almost 145.5 million SP. However, if I am i n a particular ship, say a cruiser, all my SP for battle cruisers, battle ships, carriers, dreads interceptors, HACs, AFs, and recons do not help. If my cruiser has lasers, then all my SP in hybrids, projectiles and missiles do not help. If I am armor tanking my shield tanking skills are far less helpful. And unless I am in a fleet boosting position all my fleet support skills do not help. And if my ship does not have drones my 12.6 million drone SP are useless too. My point is that a huge portion of my SP are literally useless.

If I jump into a camp of 5 or so Alphas I may very well be in deep crap.

This is an open classless game--i.e. a sandbox. If you have elected to play as an Alpha for whatever reason...then that will mean you'll have limitations you'll have to over come. But this is true of every player, Alpha or Omega. The point of the game is to figure out how to overcome those constraints. I am in a largely Euro alliance...and given my TZ that can be a bit of an issue at times, but like the player who has chosen to play as an Alpha, this is my problem. I do not come here whining on the forums want CCP to make it more fair. Sorry, that is my job.

This is a game about emergence and spontaneous order, or as CCP likes to call it a sandbox. The players provide the vast bulk of the content. From the market, to NS wars, to HS wars, ganking, and so forth. Much of it is driven by what in other games would be considered Meta Gaming. Here that is just another day in in New Eden. Is there an in-game mechanic for the Mittani to learn that a neighboring alliance is riddled with rot in the alliance leadership? No, not really. So why should he know. Probably because he learned of it OOG. That he then initiates an invasion of said alliance based on this OOG knowledge is not bad...it is good. It gives us stuff to do in game. Stuff to shoot. Stories to read about and enjoy.

Most of use live for the meta game. Either we participate in it directly, or we enjoy the in-game consequences. Was the Casino Wars a meta-game issue? From what I read absolutely. Still, even though I was on the losing side, I got to get in lots of fleets, shoot lots of people, and have quite a bit of fun. Am I upset about this meta? Oh Hell no. Like most Eve players it is like popcorn liberally treated with MSG...you just can't stop eating it!

And the factions that mean something are the NS player factions. There is all kinds of stuff going on there that is awesome. Forget the HS empires...they are largely boring useless things.

Edit: BTW, when I say this is a game about emergence and spontaneous order, it is in fact the antithesis of what you are saying. It is the players who create the content, the stories, the excitement. Not CCP. They just gave us this sandbox to play in, which is undoubtedly a good thing, but it is the players who are driving alot of the actions and stories. We don't want your UFP MUSH/MUD whatever where this is one faction that all powerful and deciding things. We want...a jungle where player based organizations will rise up and fall and along the way we can all have a **** load of fun.

No your game sucks. See, there you are letting other players do stuff. Nobody lets players in EVE do stuff. They do it if they can. And if they can't well too bad for them. There is no top down. Nobody guiding things to a desired out come. You "let" that stuff happen. In EVE nobody "lets it happen". It either happens or it does not. Yes, a group can rise to dominance only to fall later for a variety of reasons. Not because somebody deemed it good, but because that is simply where the game took us. Here I'll quote the part of your post I find the most horribly from my view:



Yuck. Not for me thanks. Give me the messy, chaotic and God only knows where we'll end up process that is EVE.

Does conflict in EVE serve a point? Yes, entertainment.

I want to be clear why I find EVE so fascinating. It is an unguided process. I have seen BoB stomp across the north only to retreat after slamming into the brick wall that was the Northern Coalition. I watched BoB fall to a single traitor and all their space and that of their allies fall to their long time enemies Goonswarm. I was part of IT Alliance as they pushed PL and Sons of Tangra out of Fountain despite receiving considerable help from both Goons and the Northern Coalition. I sat there and watched the Northern Coalition fall to the Drone Region Federation as the Northern Coalition fell into in-fighting and each alliance engaging in self-preserving behavior. I was part of the CFC/Imperium only to see them fall to their own hubris and arrogance. I saw the Drone Region Federation collapse due to internal rot as their leadership largely went AFK.

The thing that fascinates me about all this is that NOBODY was guiding this. There was no super power that let this or that happen. It happened all on its own. It was an unguided process. One that saw the Honey Badger Coalition and the CFC pretty much control half the map...until those two entities turned on each other and one killed the other. Where the victor was then driven out of their long term home by yet another entity the Money Badger Coalition built by IWI.

It is this unguided process that makes the game intriguing to me. Why are Goons so resilient where other alliances could have failcascaded? Why are other alliances so brittle? Many alliances in NS seem to follow the same trajectory: growth and expansion, reaching some pinnacle point, then malaise sets in and leadership becomes complacent or AWOL and then the inevitable collapse.

Nobody guides this. Nobody steps in if one side starts to gain “too much”. The game is largely self-regulating when it comes to alliances via the above process. Even Goons are not totally immune to it. Their problem appears to be hubris. That is what happened, IMO, to them in Delve when they kicked out BoB and that is what happened in Deklein. Still they have a strong enough culture within their alliance to withstand adversity that would destroy other alliances.

To me this game is fascinating because there is nobody guiding it. Steering it in what some “expert” deems to be balanced. If one player faction becomes extremely powerful...give it time, and they’ll fall like a tree with a rotten core in a strong breeze.

That would be a highly-scripted take on a game. You are speaking from the viewpoint of an authority, a dictator able to mandate and direct the flow of the narrative.
EVE, on the other hand, is a free-flowing anarchic ball of chaos and destruction where the will to power is the most effective means of achieving an objective.

Again, as I mentioned, you're trying to enforce a preset directive of traditional role-play upon others, most of whom are necessarily un-role-play supportive for a great number of reasons.
FIrst and foremost, galactic politics in EVE is far more different from that of other sci-fi universes, because unlike their narrative which is specifically engineered by scriptwriters, authors, editors and directors to have flow, climaxes and pacing, EVE has nothing like it because these are real players with real emotions, confronting real issues with real dilemmas and moral conflicts.
Secondly, players have multiple accounts, each with their own goals, purposes and facades. There is no preset personality to take on, and much less when we consider that Capsuleers by lore are divorced from any 'mortal' concerns, and regularly throw around planetary GDPs in frivolous tasks such as blowing up ships 'for the lulz'.

Rather than envision say a strict world such as Star Trek or Star Wars, have a look at the Culture.

I stand by the claim that in such a diverse and open universe as EVE, where carebear miners can exist alongside hardened combat pilots in the same system, there is no difference between a traditional roleplaying personality and one's own personality.

A dictator that dictated a loss two times in three?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9xN0Ol5vZQ

Yeah, some dictator. This episode fed a lot of tiny plots, but it's morality also played a huge part in my portrayal of the UFP.

You are making a case that does not exist. Nobody would stop you from doing what you want, as you do, here. The flipside was that IF you want Content, it's there, all the time.

How were we wrong?

Go and become a Dev then. You are trying to compare a few hundred players interacting in a directly controlled environment with a 300,000 player sandbox game.
They are simply not comparable, and are entirely different kinds of experience, last time anything like you talk about got tried in EVE, it ended in one of the largest scandals in EVE where it got revealed that massive favouritism was being played towards certain groups. And because of the scale of EVE, it's impossible to avoid that favouritism because you simply would not be able to review everything submitted by players.

However none of this has anything to do with your actual topic, and your actual topic is still just as bad an idea as it was on the first page.