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Restrict players to ships of their faction (an end to meta-gaming)

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Amojin
Doomheim
#81 - 2017-02-21 23:57:34 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

It's unfair because I chose a race back when race didn't matter, and now my race does matter. And unlike training for a ship that gets nerfed, I can't change that.


You chose, for meta-game reasons, and didn't pay attention to the most basic of the MMO choices? What race do you want to play?!

LOL


I don't think you actually understand what metagaming even means in EVE.


I dare say you must be right, because so far, this makes no sense.

What does meta-gaming mean, in EVE, contrasting with our standard definition, everywhere else?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2017-02-21 23:58:34 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

It's unfair because I chose a race back when race didn't matter, and now my race does matter. And unlike training for a ship that gets nerfed, I can't change that.


You chose, for meta-game reasons, and didn't pay attention to the most basic of the MMO choices? What race do you want to play?!

LOL


Dude...the meta-game is the game. We don't play because of missions for crying out loud.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#83 - 2017-02-21 23:58:39 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

It's unfair because I chose a race back when race didn't matter, and now my race does matter. And unlike training for a ship that gets nerfed, I can't change that.


You chose, for meta-game reasons, and didn't pay attention to the most basic of the MMO choices? What race do you want to play?!

LOL

Actually, I chose Caldari because I was trying to create a character that resembles Donald Trump, and given the corporate nature of Caldari society I felt that was the best race. The metagame had nothing to do with it. Besides, a major point of EvE is that RACE DOESN'T MATTER.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2017-02-22 00:00:03 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

It's unfair because I chose a race back when race didn't matter, and now my race does matter. And unlike training for a ship that gets nerfed, I can't change that.


You chose, for meta-game reasons, and didn't pay attention to the most basic of the MMO choices? What race do you want to play?!

LOL


I don't think you actually understand what metagaming even means in EVE.


I dare say you must be right, because so far, this makes no sense.

What does meta-gaming mean, in EVE, contrasting with our standard definition, everywhere else?


If I have a spy in your corp and am using the information from them to headshot all your FCs, target callers and logi anchors, I am metagaming you.

if I am flying a cerberus with my alliancemates, I am not metagaming, I am playing the game.
Amojin
Doomheim
#85 - 2017-02-22 00:00:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:



.... how is that the most basic? not everyone is like you and dresses up even to jack off


Wow... I can't talk about religion or politics, but this ok? New world rules, for sure. Ok. I tend to find clothes an impediment to that activity. If you're getting dressed up, well, I understand they have about 48 'gender-identities' for you to choose from on Facebook, now.

I grew up with two. No real mixing, but it's a new world, and new choices, so dressing up? Well, they got trannies, and nuggets, now, so... Sure, do what you like.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#86 - 2017-02-22 00:02:38 UTC
Amojin wrote:

I dare say you must be right, because so far, this makes no sense.

What does meta-gaming mean, in EVE, contrasting with our standard definition, everywhere else?

You aren't even using the standard definition of meta gaming here. You are using some weird personal definition and throwing in a buzz word to try and provoke people.
Meta gaming is about using out of character knowledge to base your in character decisions on. Having access to multiple races of ships is entirely in game, and thus can't be meta gaming at all.

Also note that your idea would mean no-one could use any pirate ships, which is even more stupid than the fact that your idea actually means no-one could use any ships since none of us belong to any empire.

We have an Empire of birth only, we are all freelancers, deal with it.
Amojin
Doomheim
#87 - 2017-02-22 00:03:32 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

It's unfair because I chose a race back when race didn't matter, and now my race does matter. And unlike training for a ship that gets nerfed, I can't change that.


You chose, for meta-game reasons, and didn't pay attention to the most basic of the MMO choices? What race do you want to play?!

LOL


I don't think you actually understand what metagaming even means in EVE.


I dare say you must be right, because so far, this makes no sense.

What does meta-gaming mean, in EVE, contrasting with our standard definition, everywhere else?


If I have a spy in your corp and am using the information from them to headshot all your FCs, target callers and logi anchors, I am metagaming you.

if I am flying a cerberus with my alliancemates, I am not metagaming, I am playing the game.


From what I have read, this is, ALSO, in the rules, as allowed. It's not meta-gaming, in the traditional sense, since you chose to allow this person, hell, scratch that, you GRANTED him access...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2017-02-22 00:05:01 UTC
Amojin wrote:

From what I have read, this is, ALSO, in the rules, as allowed. It's not meta-gaming, in the traditional sense, since you chose to allow this person, hell, scratch that, you GRANTED him access...


Please post the definition of metagaming you are going off of here. I was under the impression it meant using out of character (or out of game) knowledge to influence your actions, what do you think it means?
Amojin
Doomheim
#89 - 2017-02-22 00:05:08 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Meta gaming is about using out of character knowledge to base your in character decisions on. Having access to multiple races of ships is entirely in game, and thus can't be meta gaming at all.

Also note that your idea would mean no-one could use any pirate ships, which is even more stupid than the fact that your idea actually means no-one could use any ships since none of us belong to any empire.

We have an Empire of birth only, we are all freelancers, deal with it.


That's the exact definition I'm using, which in this game I extend to using out of character ships. Which is why I propose enforcing the P2P players, JUST LIKE THEY DO the F2P.

CCP already saw this. You can just PAY to get out of it.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#90 - 2017-02-22 00:07:05 UTC
Amojin wrote:

That's the exact definition I'm using, which in this game I extend to using out of character ships. Which is why I propose enforcing the P2P players, JUST LIKE THEY DO the F2P.

CCP already saw this. You can just PAY to get out of it.

But they aren't out of character ships, they are in character because they are inside the game.
Anything in the game client is in character.

The F2P/Trial players are restricted specifically so that there is incentive for them to subscribe. Not because of any kind of Roleplay reasons, but specfically, to use your terminology, because of metagame reasons (called CCP needs RL money).
So your entire argument is backwards.
Amojin
Doomheim
#91 - 2017-02-22 00:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Amojin wrote:

That's the exact definition I'm using, which in this game I extend to using out of character ships. Which is why I propose enforcing the P2P players, JUST LIKE THEY DO the F2P.

CCP already saw this. You can just PAY to get out of it.

But they aren't out of character ships, they are in character because they are inside the game.
Anything in the game client is in character.

The F2P/Trial players are restricted specifically so that there is incentive for them to subscribe. Not because of any kind of Roleplay reasons, but specfically, to use your terminology, because of metagame reasons (called CCP needs RL money).
So your entire argument is backwards.


I see. When the law is unjustly applied, only to the poor, then I am wrong. My reasoning is backwards, not the law, or standard?

Habakuk surely spoke right. In chapter 1, verse 4, of a LITERARY HISTORICAL WORK, he said 'Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.'
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2017-02-22 00:11:12 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Amojin wrote:

That's the exact definition I'm using, which in this game I extend to using out of character ships. Which is why I propose enforcing the P2P players, JUST LIKE THEY DO the F2P.

CCP already saw this. You can just PAY to get out of it.

But they aren't out of character ships, they are in character because they are inside the game.
Anything in the game client is in character.

The F2P/Trial players are restricted specifically so that there is incentive for them to subscribe. Not because of any kind of Roleplay reasons, but specfically, to use your terminology, because of metagame reasons (called CCP needs RL money).
So your entire argument is backwards.


I see. When the law is unjustly applied, only to the poor, then I am wrong. My reasoning is backwards, not the law, or standard?

Habakuk surely spoke right.

You want more ships, you pay more money. There has to be a reason to subscribe.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Amojin
Doomheim
#93 - 2017-02-22 00:13:30 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
You want more ships, you pay more money. There has to be a reason to subscribe.


Very good. So, now we are where I wanted us to be.

This is a Pay to Win game. Now, that being established, when you win?

How does it make you feel? Does it feel cheap, dishonest, or are you actually feeling accomplished?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#94 - 2017-02-22 00:15:13 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
You want more ships, you pay more money. There has to be a reason to subscribe.


Very good. So, now we are where I wanted us to be.

This is a Pay to Win game. Now, that being established, when you win?

How does it make you feel? Does it feel cheap, dishonest, or are you actually feeling accomplished?


No, it really isn't. It is now, and always has been, a pay to play game. It just happens to have an option for restricted free play now.

It's also quite impossible to win. Or lose, really. So what has this to do with **** all anything else in the thread?
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#95 - 2017-02-22 00:16:56 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
You want more ships, you pay more money. There has to be a reason to subscribe.


Very good. So, now we are where I wanted us to be.

This is a Pay to Win game. Now, that being established, when you win?

How does it make you feel? Does it feel cheap, dishonest, or are you actually feeling accomplished?

Skills don't make the man. Someone with higher player skills could beat someone with higher character skills. Paying up just unlocks more.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#96 - 2017-02-22 00:17:11 UTC
Amojin wrote:


Very good. So, now we are where I wanted us to be.

This is a Pay to Win game. Now, that being established, when you win?

How does it make you feel? Does it feel cheap, dishonest, or are you actually feeling accomplished?

Except it isn't.
Because this is not a F2P game. There is an unlimited trial that can be used as a F2P option if you don't mind being limited.
EVE is a subscription game at it's heart, and until the last year you couldn't play for free even with restrictions. (Plex are not free, someone pays the $'s).

So, again, your argument is completely the wrong way around, and this particular topic has been hashed out in hundreds of pages of debate in the alpha clone threads already, by debate I mean a bunch of people explaining why it's not P2W and a few people not listening and just shouting the same thing again and again of course.
Amojin
Doomheim
#97 - 2017-02-22 00:20:09 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
You want more ships, you pay more money. There has to be a reason to subscribe.


Very good. So, now we are where I wanted us to be.

This is a Pay to Win game. Now, that being established, when you win?

How does it make you feel? Does it feel cheap, dishonest, or are you actually feeling accomplished?


No, it really isn't. It is now, and always has been, a pay to play game. It just happens to have an option for restricted free play now.

It's also quite impossible to win. Or lose, really. So what has this to do with **** all anything else in the thread?


Everything. What does it prove to me, were I an able-bodied man in my prime, to strike down an enemy that I knew couldn't win?

I look at him, and see he's flying a Navy Vexor. Hmmm... He's capped out, and would otherwise be in an Ishtar, and is when he pays, but right now, he's in a Navy Vexor...

I paid, and have a nice ship, so I can just trounce him. I know he can't fit omega mods, so there's no tech 2 to worry about. No matter if he has me handily beaten on skills, as an omega, they won't be used, in alpha...

It creates a sub-class of victims. Does that, since we're all being rude, give you a woody, to beat a helpless foe? If it does, then I'm sad for you. If it doesn't, then you should be on my side - restrict the P2P, too. You should be allowed to go higher than a cruiser, for your real money payment, but you should not have so much advantage that you can not only fly bigger, but fly all.
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2017-02-22 00:43:40 UTC
I fly other faction ships because, honestly there are some really fugly ships in EVE that I would not to be caught dead in.

I'm glad there are options to fly other faction ship with the near or same capabilities as the one in my own faction, because I can save myself from the embarrassment of some truly awful designs.

If all of EVE's ships were designed like beautiful Pininfarina Ferrari's then I wouldn't mind faction ship restrictions, perhaps some even better looking than others so that there would be a certain faction ship envy.

But, I don't want to be stuck with an ugly baby because I happened to chose the race with the ugly ships.

Hey, its about style Cool

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#99 - 2017-02-22 00:43:48 UTC
i've seen some bad ideas posted up, but this one is on a whole new level of dumb.

HELL NO.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Amojin
Doomheim
#100 - 2017-02-22 00:49:28 UTC
Ronnie Rose wrote:
I fly other faction ships because, honestly there are some really fugly ships in EVE that I would not to be caught dead in.

I'm glad there are options to fly other faction ship with the near or same capabilities as the one in my own faction, because I can save myself from the embarrassment of some truly awful designs.

If all of EVE's ships were designed like beautiful Pininfarina Ferrari's then I wouldn't mind faction ship restrictions, perhaps some even better looking than others so that there would be a certain faction ship envy.

But, I don't want to be stuck with an ugly baby because I happened to chose the race with the ugly ships.

Hey, its about style Cool


Like we're fond of our space potato, and boy do the amarr love their space-turkey...

I do agree with you, some of them are terrifyingly grotesque, and no skin yet created can fix it. But, that aside, the combination of shutting down my T2 drones, my T2 mods, and my T2 Ishtar, as 'Omega,' even though it's cruiser class, and restricting me to a T1 Navy Vexor with T1 mods and drones?

On top of that, you P2P, when you are paying, have all your skills activated, when mine, even to 5, are disabled to 4's, and you can fly bigger, AND you can fly any...

Well, you're going to win. It's a guarantee.