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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Player Experience Suggestions

Author
Citika
Presumed Ignorant
Cytrite Research Solutions
#1 - 2017-02-18 05:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Citika
I had a friend who just started playing EVE and they had several issues with EVE just beyond the tutorial. This includes the Career Agents and something beyond them.

1. Drones and Ammunition not explained early

I was asked what ammunition was and how to acquire and use it. I was also asked what drones were and how to load, launch, and maneuver them through the menu. A simple explanation of the primary weapon systems of the ship in question before getting to the Career agents would probably have solved this issue.


2. Walls of text

While not an issue on its own, reading what basically ends up being an essay just to warp to a jump gate ended up being an issue for my friend. They ended up reading a few sentences and then ended up overwhelmed. This really became an issue later on when the Advanced Military agent gave the mission that requires you to fly to a Deadspace pocket where your ship will be blown up to destroy a station. Somewhere in that long essay was the warning that your ship would be blown up, but my friend didn't see it and brought their best ship.

The simple solution would be for a small, objective-based mission summary or a warning at the beginning of the entry that clearly states that the ship that you bring will be destroyed. Don't know if there was one, but they missed it.


3. Continued experience

Any suggestions from the career agents on how to continue after finishing their arc would be useful, especially since they mostly end without telling you what you can do afterwards. A simple reference to the epic arc, or to other nearby agents would probably be a good idea.


Anyways, these are just some things I noticed while my friend was trying to play EVE with no prior experience. Don't know if any other new players have this issue, but my friend sure did.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2017-02-18 06:00:12 UTC
1 how to load and fire your weapon is covered in the npe

2 it has an objective summery and there was a warring

3 they should end by having the player open the corp add window and finding a corp
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2017-02-18 06:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Citika wrote:
The simple solution would be for a small, objective-based mission summary or a warning at the beginning of the entry that clearly states that the ship that you bring will be destroyed. Don't know if there was one, but they missed it.

Ahem... how much more clear could it possibly be that you will lose your ship? (Couldn't find a clearer version but even with that blurred BOLD RED text I can read "...are not to leave with your ship intact..."

Citika wrote:
Any suggestions from the career agents on how to continue after finishing their arc would be useful, especially since they mostly end without telling you what you can do afterwards. A simple reference to the epic arc, or to other nearby agents would probably be a good idea.

Both the career agents as well as the SOE agent at the end of the Arc tell you very clearly what you can do next: Everything. As far as I remember the texts, they tell you that you are now equipped with the knowledge of many basic and more advanced activities that you can do in EVE, and that it is up to you to decide what exactly you want to do from now on, whether it involves mining, hunting NPCs, exploring signatures (and by extension wormholes), producing things, shooting people, building your empire, or getting in touch with other players.
Unless CCP removed that, which would be absolutely stupid, the career agents specifically point you to the SOE Epic Arc after you finish the tutorial and career missions.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2017-02-18 11:58:26 UTC
2. Yeah i thought it was in red text.

3. Points to soe arc iirc. But pointing to corp recruitment might be good as well as profession based npc corps that they can join (should really be a thing).

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2017-02-18 12:33:05 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:


3. Points to soe arc iirc. But pointing to corp recruitment might be good as well as profession based npc corps that they can join (should really be a thing).



If it can be done by a player an NPC version should not be a thing
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2017-02-18 15:09:24 UTC
I'm firmly of the opinion that nothing CCP will do to teach you this game will ever come close to having other people teach it to you on the go. I actually don't think a new player could go through a tutorial that covered everything and understand what it even means,

Whenever people talk about making things easier for new players, I think that should go as far as having more new player friendly corps around and that's it. No vet picked this game up from the tutorial.
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-02-18 19:19:00 UTC
OP, you're the best thing for the NPE and that is walking your friend through the game. Keep it up and chances are they will be a continuing player of EVE.

I know that I would have quit a long time ago if a friend of mine did not take me under his wing and show me the ropes. Honestly I don't see how anyone could even put up with this game if they just fell off the turnip truck, because the learning curve is more like a "familiarization curve" and its pretty steep.

We're not here to change the game, we're here to change YOUR game

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2017-02-19 01:22:46 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


3. Points to soe arc iirc. But pointing to corp recruitment might be good as well as profession based npc corps that they can join (should really be a thing).



If it can be done by a player an NPC version should not be a thing


Ccp can't make in game recommendations for player corps. It's playing favourites. It also pushes noobs into the paths of wardecs that they may not want to be part of.

NPC's career corps can be pointed at by ccp to pool new players with like minded folks. I think it'll be a better alternative to the current npc corps.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Citika
Presumed Ignorant
Cytrite Research Solutions
#9 - 2017-02-19 05:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Citika
I'm only providing recommendations based on what I'm hearing from my friend. I haven't actually been through the new tutorial. These are just the things that my friend complained or questioned me about. While I agree that the warning for the ship being blown up is MASSIVE, they missed it, and so did a couple other people judging from the Rookie Help channel at the time.

If I was going to make another suggestion, it would be:

4. Make the Rookie Help Chat window bigger and more visible

I pointed this out to my friend and there haven't been any issues since. The first thing I noticed when helping them was the the chat window, by default, was tiny, with barely enough room for a single line of text. This needs to be much better featured since it is EXTREMELY helpful.

Players help players, but if you don't know that they are there, they can't help you.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2017-02-19 07:12:21 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


3. Points to soe arc iirc. But pointing to corp recruitment might be good as well as profession based npc corps that they can join (should really be a thing).



If it can be done by a player an NPC version should not be a thing


Ccp can't make in game recommendations for player corps. It's playing favourites. It also pushes noobs into the paths of wardecs that they may not want to be part of.

NPC's career corps can be pointed at by ccp to pool new players with like minded folks. I think it'll be a better alternative to the current npc corps.



ccp can also just show how to use the search feature... the starter corps are already technically focused into different areas but it doesn't work does it? all this would do is cause a new player to faultily assume that this npc corp could offer something of parity with a player run corp
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2017-02-19 07:25:37 UTC
Citika wrote:
I'm only providing recommendations based on what I'm hearing from my friend. I haven't actually been through the new tutorial. These are just the things that my friend complained or questioned me about. While I agree that the warning for the ship being blown up is MASSIVE, they missed it, and so did a couple other people judging from the Rookie Help channel at the time.

thats not a bad thing... this is eve you are punished for not paying attention to even minor details this is a good lesson

also before making a post why not take the hour or so on an alpha and run the npe
Quote:

If I was going to make another suggestion, it would be:

4. Make the Rookie Help Chat window bigger and more visible

I pointed this out to my friend and there haven't been any issues since. The first thing I noticed when helping them was the the chat window, by default, was tiny, with barely enough room for a single line of text. This needs to be much better featured since it is EXTREMELY helpful.

Players help players, but if you don't know that they are there, they can't help you.



problem with rookie help is aside from a handful of fresh alts and some isds its mostly new players helping new players. To be honest i'm not even sure rookie help does more good than harm. The number of times i have had to reteach a player and get them to unlearn something some one told them in rookie help is to high to count.

some times they are just general misconceptions


  • more lows means its a better armor tank

  • pulls lasers are more dps than beams

  • ECM is always chance based.

  • don't pvp until you can T2 fit a cruiser

  • bigger is better

  • Null sec is not for new players

some times they are things that come from lack of understanding



  • you fit a mix of long and short range guns so you can hit no matter the range

  • expensive mods are better

  • micro warp dives are better for speed tanking
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2017-02-19 09:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Citika wrote:
4. Make the Rookie Help Chat window bigger and more visible

I pointed this out to my friend and there haven't been any issues since. The first thing I noticed when helping them was the the chat window, by default, was tiny, with barely enough room for a single line of text. This needs to be much better featured since it is EXTREMELY helpful.

Players help players, but if you don't know that they are there, they can't help you.

Begs the question why they don't just increase the window size? I mean, it's a window ... People use windows in Windows, Linux, Apple's OS and whatnot else all day every day and customize their size according to their needs. How hard can it be to figure out that you can resize the window like any other window in any OS or computer environment that people use on a daily basis (even in the tablet environments you can now resize app windows)?

That is not to say that the standard chat window, overview window and selected items window are hideously small and the standard window size of the the chat window should be increased by at least 100%. What you describe, however, is a person utterly lacking any sense of curiosity to explore even mundane things like the UI functionalities.

@Lugh
ECM is not always chance based? Since when is that so? I mean, you can increase the likelihood of getting a successful jam through by using amplifiers, using the right jams on the right ships or jam a pilot with lacking sensor compensation skills, but apart from that, it's still up to chance whether you get a successful jam through or not.
And Null sec is for new players? That depends heavily on the environment. Most groups cannot support the needs for new players, which turns their experience into a bad and disappointing grind. Most new players also expect things going on every minute of their online time and expect other players to do that for them. Since this is not the case in most null sec areas, their experience turns into a, in their perception, boring activity. In most groups actual new players also cannot contribute meaningful things to the group nor support themselves because of lack of viable income sources (yes, salvaging and looting are 2 very fun activities that a new player full of enthusiasm wants to do every day until they can rat themselves. /s). Therefore, saying that Null sec is unconditionally suitable for new players is false advertisement.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2017-02-19 09:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Rivr Luzade wrote:


@Lugh
ECM is not always chance based? Since when is that so? I mean, you can increase the likelihood of getting a successful jam through by using amplifiers, using the right jams on the right ships or jam a pilot with lacking sensor compensation skills, but apart from that, it's still up to chance whether you get a successful jam through or not.



Chance to Jam = ( Your ECM Strength / Target's Sensor Strength ) * 100%

see what interesting thing happens when you plug in an ECM Strength that is greater than your sensor strength.

i bring this up almost any chance i get. I'm an avid E-war pilot and while in most cases Damps are far more over powered than ECM; the fact that there is a way to get 100% jam breaks ECM and everything i love about it. if you want to know how often this is the case 19.1(links skills faction heat) is the highest you can get a focused jam and a standard falcon gets around 13.

the only place i would argue a guaranteed jam should be possible is with the burst mod now that it's falloff has been removed as this mod only breaks lock and except on two ships you can stay out of its range with a scram. even with those two ships however it is not easy to get a game breaking level of 100% jam w/o severely gimping the ship and it is easy countered so long as your FC understands the ships.

Quote:

-snip-
Therefore, saying that Null sec is unconditionally suitable for new players is false advertisement.


well that was long winded. I never said it was " unconditionally suitable" the point i was making is people seem to think and are told in that channel that it is unconditionally a bad idea for a new bro to go into null sec. And i know more people who were in null their first month then stayed in HS for 6+ that are still playing years later.


Null sec is perfictly suited to new players some groups just are not suited to new players and they are everywhere most of the worst corps for new bros are in FW and HS where many corps set up systems to exploit the high volume of new players. be it forced mandatory mining ops, teaching them that High tax is normal for a mission running corp or selling them over sized ship fits in FW.