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To make the expensive rigs for L and XL citadels more effective
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Atum' Ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-02-01 12:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum' Ra
Now all rigs give the same percent of refine.
T1 for M, L and XL gives 52%
T2 for M, L and XL gives 54%

but
T1 for M citadels costs 500mil
T2 for M citadels costs 2bl

T1 for XL citadel cost 60b
T2 for XL citadel cost 300b

Proposal:
To make the expensive rigs for L and XL citadels more effective

T1 for M gives 48%
T1 L - 52%
T1 XL - 55%

T2 M - 50%
T2 L - 54.5%
T2 XL - 58%
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#2 - 2017-02-01 13:29:34 UTC
How many cubic metres of Veld do I have to refine with a T2 XL to recoup the cost of the rig?

That's a serious question. I imagine a lot. Probably a non-trivial fraction of the total ore on market.

If you can show, mathematically, that a T2 XL refining rig is never ever going to recoup its cost then you have yourself a compelling argument for nerfing the cost, or buffing the bonus.

But not until then.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2017-02-01 13:50:58 UTC
You didn't list the cost for L rigs so it's hard to say if the prices are out of line. Is suspect if you operate a Citadel long enough the cost of a T2 over T1 rig might be justifiable.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-02-02 09:28:58 UTC
The price of rigs is high because there is a shortage of salvage. This isn't because there aren't enough wrecks in the game but there aren't enough people salvaging them. As the price continues to climb that will change - same as it did for PI after Citadels were introduced last year.

If you don't believe the rig is cost effective - there is no law requiring you to fit one. Drilling platforms will likely have a hull bonus for reprocessing and a substantially higher yield than Citadels if a rig is fitted.
Cade Windstalker
#5 - 2017-02-02 14:50:42 UTC
They're already more effective because they're sitting on a *far* more effective platform that is much harder to kill. If you can't afford the bigger Citadel then don't build it.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#6 - 2017-02-02 16:09:48 UTC
um, what you left out is that Large/XL rigs cover more ore/ice with fewer rigs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-02-02 16:12:43 UTC
They are as expensive as people are willing to pay for them and they are already very effective no change needed

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2017-02-02 21:57:21 UTC
Cost of 2x Raitarus + T2 rigs for all ores/ice = <15bil
Cost of Sotiyo + 1x T2 rig for all ores/ice = ~330bil

To give you an idea, with the money you save you could buy and PLEX 128 freighters to haul the ore where you need it.

That aside, since they both effectively refine the exact same amount, the only way you could recoup cost is through any assumed transport fees. If for some odd reason you don't need to transport the minerals, you will never recoup those costs.. Same goes for the azbel.

That's why most of the current setups have a main manufacturing sotiyo, azbel, or raitaru and then a second or third raitaru for refining. The markets also show that there is a terribly low demand for L and XL rigs, most likely reflective of their prohibitive costs.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2017-02-02 22:10:37 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
How many cubic metres of Veld do I have to refine with a T2 XL to recoup the cost of the rig?

Assuming you are comparing it to the other options, you will never recoup the cost of the rig against an azbel or two raitarus
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2017-02-03 00:53:56 UTC
I would also like to remind people the refine bonuses on these rigs are almost certainly going to be nerfed and modifiers will be built into the drilling platforms hull bonuses. this very well could fix your issue requiring the xl DP to get max refine

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#11 - 2017-02-03 04:17:46 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I would also like to remind people the refine bonuses on these rigs are almost certainly going to be nerfed and modifiers will be built into the drilling platforms hull bonuses. this very well could fix your issue requiring the xl DP to get max refine



I only see this happening if CCP see rigs on Citadels (as opposed to manufacturing platforms) as a major issue, and that's still unlikely to end up with different bonuses between Citadels because then you have this absolutely ridiculous cost to get perfect refine.

That would hit two of the major criteria for a bad change in CCP's eyes: minimal actual economic impact combined with large amounts of player discontent. Despite what some forum dwellers seem to think CCP don't actually make changes with the intent of pissing off huge chunks of players, and for the most part they succeed quite admirably, only pissing of small numbers of players with each change (which is about the best you could hope for).

Saying "yeah, you need 60-400b for perfect refine" would be a giant middle finger to every industrialist in the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2017-02-03 06:36:51 UTC
why would you need 60-400b? DPs will probably be priced about the same as EC so it would be about the same cost if not a little cheaper than a current max refine outpost.

as for if they will do it it would fit with the rest of the structures and we already know the current universal refine is a place holder until DP are added just like the EC science bonuses are only place holder till the lab structure is added in a year or two

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Atum' Ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-02-16 11:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum' Ra
The main issue in the efficiency of processing.
No need to install L or XL rig, when with the same efficiency you can get the same for less money.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2017-02-16 23:22:30 UTC
Atum' Ra wrote:
The main issue in the efficiency of processing.
No need to install L or XL rig, when with the same efficiency you can get the same for less money.

But you don't get the same efficiency.
M structures are limited to only some ores, and having to move ore between several structures is less efficient.

Your issue here is that you are ignoring all the downsides of using an M structure to refine all your ore. Not that L & XL structures need more.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2017-02-17 07:23:28 UTC
Atum' Ra wrote:
Now all rigs give the same percent of refine.
T1 for M, L and XL gives 52%
T2 for M, L and XL gives 54%

but
T1 for M citadels costs 500mil
T2 for M citadels costs 2bl

T1 for XL citadel cost 60b
T2 for XL citadel cost 300b

Proposal:
To make the expensive rigs for L and XL citadels more effective

T1 for M gives 48%
T1 L - 52%
T1 XL - 55%

T2 M - 50%
T2 L - 54.5%
T2 XL - 58%



Nope Bigger toy´s bigger cost´s if they are not worth to buy don´t buy them but don´t cry to CCP.

-1