EVE General Discussion

So, about citadels. I stopped playing shortly before they announced they will introduce this garbage, and now, for the first time, I am asking for feedback on citadels. How amazing is it to set one up, looking at it, protecting it? Does it increase the fun factor for you?
I am curious.

Don't see how a feature needs to be fun in order for it to be a good or needed feature. let alone "the most fun in eve history"
from everything i've heard, setting them up and managing them is a hell of a lot easier and less annoying than setting up a pos is.
living out of one is INFINITELY better, even if some of the pos functionality hasn't quite been replaced yet.
as for defensively, i've heard both that they are more annoying to take down because of the multiple timers, but also that they are too easy to take down... seems it has more to do with numbers than anything.

overall it doesn't seem like its a feature that has done much in the way of increasing "fun" as increasing the general quality of life. and from that standpoint i'd call them a resounding success in the move towards getting rid of the clusterfuck that is pos code.

There's definite potential - even if it hasn't been fully realized yet.

Infinite storage, ability to DOCK big ships on the large ones rather than have them float in a shield. If you only use them as a base and don't refine, sell, build, research, or need clones they are free to operate (something I actually do not agree with). They take time to take down because of reinforce timers but they also allow for windows so that owners can stand a chance of defending them. Their actual defenses are generally poor and you need a decent defense fleet to keep them from getting poppped. They also have tethering so anybody friendly to the station can stay in space by one and be relatively safe and get repaired in short order.

Apart from a few niggles and a few needed adjustments, which I won't go into here, I would say that they have been a huge addition to the game. Another big improvement which you might not have looked at is the capital combat with fighters and stuff, it has made larger fleet battles a lot more interesting, overall the game is in a very good place.

Sounds interesting enough then. So what is the trend with alliances in terms of how they are used the most efficiently? Is it one of those "the more you got in one system the better" or what is the most efficient method that you see alliances etc setting them up?

they are what pos were some time ago.
who own citadels in the system then own the system, pretty much.

interesting is the PL tactic: to siege an enemy citadel (with some risks involved) drop a couple of citadels of your own near that citadel, drops supers on your citadels, and send fighters on the battefield 1k km away, if something goes wrong, stop attacking wait for aggression timer and get tethered (aka invulnerable or more precisely not lockable).

another tactic is drug bubble between 2 stargate with a citadel being deployed near that bubble...

another tactic is setup your citadel in WH and farm sleepers with it, specially when it's invulnerable

etc etc

I'm in a similar position as the OP, as I have taken considerable time away from the game. Reading the thread, I get that citadels do offer better quality of life, but how about interacting with others? For market orders there are many more listings from places you can't access. (Is there a way to even filter out a citadel when searching the market?) It's strange exploring wormholes... before you could see what was around on DScan, even if it was safely in a POS... now they dock up and go completely off grid. Many features seem redundant with what already exists in the game. If a citadel can make any system warm and cozy like home, that seems to trivialize content in those systems. Mining/Ratting in some low sec systems seem downright trivial to corporations that set up citadels there... they made the systems "safer", which reduces opportunities for content. These are my gut reactions. Please tell me where I'm off base.

You raise good questions, and the impetus of your concerns is valid.

1) Yes, Citadels in WH now mean that ships can dock up and disappear. But there are two serious caveats. It is very difficult to construct, or carry in, a Citadel into a hole. Even worse, j-space Citadels have no Asset Safety. In addition to the logistic problems of building a WH Citadel, WH Citadels risk losing everything, and even worse, those assets will be available for pickup by the aggressors.

2) Citadels elsewhere either secure operations and greater profit there and/or, fortify the system., depending on sector.
In HS, its largely arbitrary, except the matter of marginal market competition and some specific safeties regarding staging.
The ongoing Perimeter war, is more a matter of fun/ego/status than real hard profit.
In LS, somewhat the same, but for lesser advantage. LS gets screwed, again...
In NPC Null, due to general lack of NPC stations, they are genuinely "space homes" . This is the sector in which Citadels truly make sense.

In Player Sov, however, radically, in addition to the above, Citadels also become fortifications that prevent enemy acquisition of your space.

It is in Player Sov where Citadels have their most pronounced and integral effect, as fortification of a system, to forestall conquest.

I dont have numbers to corroborate this, nor are they available without an exhausting scouting exploration, but I dread to think of how many Citadels are proliferating throughout Player Sov even as we speak, making it evermore difficult for any aggressor to conquer the system. This will systemically lead o stagnation of conflict, and concretion (via fortification), of current borders.

It takes days, if not weeks, to grind through each of these Citadel fortifications, vs whatever defense shows up.
Even if you manage to win, all the enemy loses is the cost of the Citadel, its internal stored assets are moved 100% free and safe, to the next on. Your enemy loses only that structure, and its cost. In the next attack on the next Citadel, you will again face the full force of their assets, un-depleted by destruction of the previous Citadel.

The more Citadels there are in Player Sov, the longer the grind to conquer it.
Imagine a system with 10, 20, 50 Citadels (none of which cost upkeep)., with varying vulnerability windows.
No invasion fleet will manage to maintain cohesion to grind through them all, for no reward.

Some thoughts:

1. Agree with you, but I would guess in order to do this, it would require a rewrite of the overview. The one issue that does need to be fixed is ALL citadels appears on your overview when you first jump in the system before the overview can filter them.

2. I was surprised by this when I discovered it, but I bet it is a mix of how items appear in the overview, etc. like in part 1.

3. I would agree with this ONLY if they added the notification for structures being anchored in your space that are not your alliances (like they use to for POS). Right now, you have a 15 minute window to kill the thing when it onlines. Completely hiding them like this would make it to easy to sneak one in. Sorry, but forcing someone to go through every single system with a probe launcher every day is not a valid idea as it simply adds a dedious task that serves no purpose. Yes if you own the space you should use it, but if you own the space, you would think the tcu would also alert you to new structures.

4. I will agree with you even though it is very helpful for hunters lol.

5. Was not aware of this but based on your description I agree like in part 4.

6. You do this, you are basically going to force alliances back into stations and out of citadels because the market will go where it is safe (ish).