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UI scalling 200% and 250%

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Merc101
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2017-02-15 17:28:39 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Merc101 wrote:

Now, the game will ONLY display my display's native resolution in windowed mode.


Would you submit a bug report for this? Press F12 in-game and click Report Bug. Would be interested to see the package of system info that comes with that bug report.


EBR-111855
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2017-02-15 17:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
I took a look at your report. A few things:

Looks like the basic issue that you're struggling with is that in windowed mode, changing resolution changes the window size such that one pixel in the window matches one pixel on the display. That isn't necessarily the most desirable behavior for a very high resolution monitor, but it's not a bug.

There is a maximum setting for UI scaling that is based on your Eve screen resolution, including in windowed mode. If you set the UI scaling to 150% and size the window down, it will set that setting lower if you make the window small enough, and restore it to 150% if you make the window larger. This behavior means that your UI elements may or may not change size as you drag the window to different sizes, but they'll never get bigger than they are in full-screen mode.

Also, in windowed mode, maximizing the window does disable choosing a resolution as long as you're in maximized mode. If you manually drag the window to be the size of the screen, you can choose a resolution, but that will make the window a different size.

I don't believe any of this behavior is unintended, but it may not be the best design choice for users with very high res monitors. I'll make some notes on this and share it with our UI team.

Edit: With respect to my earlier suggestion to run Eve at a lower resolution, you might consider setting your display adapter to that lower resolution. Then you'll get a larger view and better performance in Eve, and still be able to take advantage of windowed mode. I know that switching that around is not necessarily ideal or convenient, it's just my best suggestion until changes are made to better support high-res monitors.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Merc101
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2017-02-15 18:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Merc101
CCP Darwin wrote:
I took a look at your report. A few things:

Looks like the basic issue that you're struggling with is that in windowed mode, changing resolution changes the window size such that one pixel in the window matches one pixel on the display. That isn't necessarily the most desirable behavior for a very high resolution monitor, but it's not a bug.

There is a maximum setting for UI scaling that is based on your Eve screen resolution, including in windowed mode. If you set the UI scaling to 150% and size the window down, it will set that setting lower if you make the window small enough, and restore it to 150% if you make the window larger. This behavior means that your UI elements may or may not change size as you drag the window to different sizes, but they'll never get bigger than they are in full-screen mode.

Also, in windowed mode, maximizing the window does disable choosing a resolution as long as you're in maximized mode. If you manually drag the window to be the size of the screen, you can choose a resolution, but that will make the window a different size.

I don't believe any of this behavior is unintended, but it may not be the best design choice for users with very high res monitors. I'll make some notes on this and share it with our UI team.

Edit: With respect to my earlier suggestion to run Eve at a lower resolution, you might consider setting your display adapter to that lower resolution. Then you'll get a larger view and better performance in Eve, and still be able to take advantage of windowed mode. I know that switching that around is not necessarily ideal or convenient, it's just my best suggestion until changes are made to better support high-res monitors.



The problem I have with this is that it was working fine before I accidentally hit ALT + Enter. Once I did that, something changed and I do not know what. Before I did that, I could see everything, never had to modify the resolution, everything always looked great even in windowed mode. Maybe it was broken before and hitting ALT + Enter fixed it, I don't know. Also, when I'm full screen windowed mode and have the UI set to 150%, if I make the window small again and then back to full screen, say dragging from one monitor to the other, the UI scaling will change to 125% and I have to manually put it back to 150% every time. Either way, I can't play it like this.


edit: Something that should be noted...now, when I open my launcher, everything is very large, the way it was before but the game is still really small. When it first happened and I restarted the game, the launcher text was just as small as the text in game.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2017-02-15 18:46:15 UTC
Thanks for the additional information. I'll take another look at this tomorrow.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2017-02-27 13:39:52 UTC
CCP Savior wrote:
Hi there,

I'm sorry to say that until 4k monitors become more wide spread, committing dev time to support hardware that only a very low percentage of our players have will be a hard sell to the powers that be. I will, again, voice my concern over 4k users and the UI scaling, but it might be a while before you guys see any work done on this. If you can convince a large enough group of people to go and buy 4k monitors, it would make my job easier getting support for it :)


I think this is the wrong approach, if you wait until the mass market adapted you are way too late to add the feature, you might even have people stop playing if they switch to 4k now and are not able to read stuff anymore.. 4k monitors are coming quick, I plan on switching my tv to 4k soon and I'm playing eve on it as well.. this is a big topic that needs to be adressed sooner than later

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Avashiel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-03-27 18:22:12 UTC
If extending the current UI scaling mechanism (which I imagine works by using different assets for each UI component) beyond 150% is too much work, could you consider implementing an independent and simpler scaling mechanism that just renders on one resolution off-screen and then rescales the whole framebuffer to another resolution? I'm sure that is fairly straightforward to implement in comparison, and as a bonus it will even solve another possible issue - GPUs that are too slow to render at native resolution and need to work on half-by-half resolution instead.

I'm not quite at 4k but have performance issues at my native 3200x1800, so I have to use 1600x900. But then I can not use "full screen windowed" mode, it has to be real fullscreen, making alt-tabbing problematic. A mode that does its 3d work at one resolution and then rescales the 2d result to 2x would solve both mine and the OP's problems.

I think there are a lot of laptops nowadays with such above-fullhd "retina" displays that it should be worth to cater to them.
Lilly Cookie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2017-03-29 17:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilly Cookie
Are you kidding me? Only a "small percentage" plays on higher resolutions? What nonsense. Do you count the people using super-sampling? The people using high-res laptop screens? The people using 15" laptops using full-hd still being unable to read everything? People playing normal resolutions who just have bad eyes (yes, not everyone is as gifted as your dev's with eagle eyes apparently able to read this small stuff on 4k screens... *i smell bogus*)

So what you are saying is that you dont need any of the aforementioned people playing your game, right?

... Well, guess what people are most likely to pay to play EVE or buy from your store. Is it the people who buy high-end hardware, or the people that dont have the money playing on older hardware *scratching head*

I just wanted to start to play. Didn't play any EVE Online yet (apart for 1 day years ago). But I cant read anything. Its rediculous and feels cheap. Even games from 10 years ago have scaling for 4k because the render the UI independently and are even able to let people change the font size *shock*.

So my first impression of this game is: It looks nice, but I cant read the menues and the dev's apparently dont give a rats ass about it. That is also a way to make sure you dont find new paying costumers.

Lets see how staying in the past and ignoring the present and future will go for EVE Online >.>
For the moment you are one player down who would have payed to play. But I guess my money isnt important enough to you to care about it. Though maybe you should keep in mind that most people just leave without raising their voice to complain. :)
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#28 - 2017-04-12 11:47:45 UTC
Lilly Cookie wrote:
Are you kidding me? Only a "small percentage" plays on higher resolutions? What nonsense. Do you count the people using super-sampling? The people using high-res laptop screens? The people using 15" laptops using full-hd still being unable to read everything? People playing normal resolutions who just have bad eyes (yes, not everyone is as gifted as your dev's with eagle eyes apparently able to read this small stuff on 4k screens... *i smell bogus*)

So what you are saying is that you dont need any of the aforementioned people playing your game, right?

... Well, guess what people are most likely to pay to play EVE or buy from your store. Is it the people who buy high-end hardware, or the people that dont have the money playing on older hardware *scratching head*

I just wanted to start to play. Didn't play any EVE Online yet (apart for 1 day years ago). But I cant read anything. Its rediculous and feels cheap. Even games from 10 years ago have scaling for 4k because the render the UI independently and are even able to let people change the font size *shock*.

So my first impression of this game is: It looks nice, but I cant read the menues and the dev's apparently dont give a rats ass about it. That is also a way to make sure you dont find new paying costumers.

Lets see how staying in the past and ignoring the present and future will go for EVE Online >.>
For the moment you are one player down who would have payed to play. But I guess my money isnt important enough to you to care about it. Though maybe you should keep in mind that most people just leave without raising their voice to complain. :)

There's a huge range of tech in use by the EVE Online community.

To a lot of players, part of the game's appeal are the relatively modest resource requirements. This leads to a lot of older or lower end hardware still being in use. Or hardware, that isn't really designed for gaming, like my Toshiba Z20t, which is still fine for quite a few things in EVE, as long as not too many pilots are on grid. For the time being I'm restricted to using this device. So I'm happy I can login and do some stuff at least.


Remove standings and insurance.
Qen'Ko Tawate
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2017-04-18 00:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Qen'Ko Tawate
Merc101 wrote:


The problem I have with this is that it was working fine before I accidentally hit ALT + Enter. Once I did that, something changed and I do not know what. Before I did that, I could see everything, never had to modify the resolution, everything always looked great even in windowed mode. Maybe it was broken before and hitting ALT + Enter fixed it, I don't know.


i think i was in the same boat you are - eve unplayable on my 4k displays because the resolution scale was too low. what i have is windows dpi scaling set to 225% (yea, i'm blind). this *used* to scale windowed eve clients up, however with the new launcher it stopped working for me. then it randomly started again, then sunday it went away. and it seemed to go away because i started an account that opened in fullscreen mode.

i'd lost hope entirely, but a corp mate spotted this old forum post which solved it for me https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6793938 . it looks like the problem is that the new launcher is managing a hidden shortcut that you cannot directly change windows compatibility settings on, but with a windows patch they changed the default value on `Disable display scaling on high DPI settings` from unchecked to checked, so i followed his instructions and unchecked it. now it works perfectly for me again!

hopefully that is also your issue, and you can do the same thing.

i'd also like to request that this fix be put in some easy to find place, i've been on this quest a number of times, and done various things like quit the game in frustration for a few months, buy isboxer, buy random other software, etc. knowing it was just this checkbox would have saved me massive amounts of frustration.
Bobman Smith
Solitary Confinement 4 One
#30 - 2017-04-20 12:10:42 UTC
Guess I got to chime in with my 2 cents.

I just purchased and yet have to pick up/set up a sick PC build literally today!


The PC: MSI Nightblade 3
i7 7700
MSI GTX 1070 Gaming 8GB GDDR5
SSD

Top of the line PC for the most part!


The Screen: 49" Sony X900E
Native 120hz (There's a new 49GB/s HDMI cable coming out soon supporting 4K+ 120hz)
Second only to OLED TV's for picture quality (no burn in)

Purpose of Build:

1.) Video Editing
I'm getting into YouTube content creation as a Marketing Tool for some business ideas.

2.) Eve Online.
First I wanted dual screens... But I figured the size of a large 4K TV would be like having 4 screens, 4" higher and 8" wider then the 17" laptop I'm used to using. Run 2 clients, web-browser, and monitor system information or whatever else on 1 screen all in windows mode. I heard about problems with multi screens; if they are different models, hard to match the colors. Mouse issues when scrolling from screen to screen if the resolutions different.

So I intend to run the desktop in 4K and my Eve Clients in 1080p, a light task I'm sure for my RIg. However, reading about some of the 4K issues with Eve UI, add me to the list to vote support for us 4K guys Big smile

Otherwise I will keep you guys posted on how well my build goes. I'm also moving into another house so it might take awhile before I can get it set up/tested/working. I intend to do a fairly detailed write up so if others wish to join the Eve 4K Bandwagon, they could use my experience/amateur tutorial to assist. Cool

T3 immune to remote reps. They should be the most powerful solo/small gang ships but not useful for large fleets as T2 ships should be used. Remove Insurance from game. Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs. Buy me Ice cream please!
Lina Miaoke
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#31 - 2017-05-16 07:00:53 UTC
Another 4k user chiming in.

I love the game in 4k, looks amazing, but due to the UI being too tiny for my poor vision. I'm forced to lower the resolution, now it's not as amazing at 1080p with 100-125% scaling.

Looking forward to the addition of higher scaling, my eyes will be grateful forever.
Nodoby
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-06-21 13:14:06 UTC
Hi,

I noticed interesting feature according to this "4k monitor" problem. At Singularity even with 4k monitor resolution, the game in window mode unfolded to the whole screen shows something similar to 2000x1000 resolution - and it looks much better than on Tranquility.

Looks like for test client devs "cut" maximum resolution. Maybe you need to move this feature to Tranquility?
Jang Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2017-06-23 14:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jang Taredi
4k support would be greatly appreciated. Current UI scaling sometimes requires me to squint and has taken getting used to.
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