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Major Exploit Used and Abused ATTENTION CCP

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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2017-02-15 10:56:28 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
you really should file a support ticket rather than vent on forums.
it's odd as they shouldn't be able to board the ship while it's target locked by others.


The owner of the ship can always board it. Target lock only prevents others from boarding it.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2017-02-15 10:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
People talking about limited engagement timers don't understand the basic mechanics. You only get a limited engagement timer if the target shoots back.

Various mechanics were employed here to accomplish this:

1. He didn't shoot back, so he didn't get a Limited Engagement timer.
2. This also meant he didn't get an aggression timer.
3. Without an aggression timer he was able to eject from ship.
4. Dropping corp can only be done in station OR in space in a pod only (not ship).
5. He used the quit corp option to drop directly to his default NPC corp without having to wait 24 hours to drop roles.
6. A locked ship cannot be boarded except by the owning player, as he was the last pilot in it he was still the owning player (I believe people in the same fleet as the people doing the locking can also board).
7. People who continued to aggress the now neutral player got Concorded. For that to happen the player that died must have had his safety set to red. The OP claims they were all Green/Yellow. I would dispute that, but he may have been lied to by the pilot that died, it is common to cover up a stupid act especially when "exploit" was being shouted.

The bug that appears to have been highlighted by this incident is that drones continued to attack the now neutral player. However, this was partially cancelled out by the fact that they didn't evoke a Concorde response for their owners.

Did the Paladin pilot use an exploit - yes! Do I want it fixed, hell no! This is one of those case of 'be careful what you wish for'. We're all whinging about the 10 second session counter for switching ships in Citadels. I can imagine CCP making a ham fisted attempt to fix this (like no ejecting or switching ships while you have a logoff timer - 15 minutes after being shot at). We are already suffering major PITAs as the result of other bandaid fixes. I say let the Hi sec carebears have a way of saving their blingy PvE ships from leet PvPers too scared to go to low, null or WH space.

Edit: Most of them will never know about it anyway.
Lucas Lucias
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#63 - 2017-02-15 11:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Lucias
Major Trant wrote:
People talking about limited engagement timers don't understand the basic mechanics. You only get a limited engagement timer if the target shoots back.

Various mechanics were employed here to accomplish this:

1. He didn't shoot back, so he didn't get a Limited Engagement timer.
2. This also meant he didn't get an aggression timer.
3. Without an aggression timer he was able to eject from ship.
4. Dropping corp can only be done in station OR in space in a pod only (not ship).
5. He used the quit corp option to drop directly to his default NPC corp without having to wait 24 hours to drop roles.
6. A locked ship cannot be boarded except by the owning player, as he was the last pilot in it he was still the owning player (I believe people in the same fleet as the people doing the locking can also board).
7. People who continued to aggress the now neutral player got Concorded. For that to happen the player that died must have had his safety set to red. The OP claims they were all Green/Yellow. I would dispute that, but he may have been lied to by the pilot that died, it is common to cover up a stupid act especially when "exploit" was being shouted.

The bug that appears to have been highlighted by this incident is that drones continued to attack the now neutral player. However, this was partially cancelled out by the fact that they didn't evoke a Concorde response for their owners.

Did the Paladin pilot use an exploit - yes! Do I want it fixed, hell no! This is one of those case of 'be careful what you wish for'. We're all whinging about the 10 second session counter for switching ships in Citadels. I can imagine CCP making a ham fisted attempt to fix this (like no ejecting or switching ships while you have a logoff timer - 15 minutes after being shot at). We are already suffering major PITAs as the result of other bandaid fixes. I say let the Hi sec carebears have a way of saving their blingy PvE ships from leet PvPers too scared to go to low, null or WH space.


P I R A T used this to change corp in space to get a point on me when I was blapping a POCO. But this is an excellent approach and as I was caught by the change corp in a pod after ejecting I will certainly use this if I ever get caught in something blingy. I was told that what happened to me was working as intended so I would expect the same answer on this one.

And the player who got Concorded did not have his safety on green that is definate as you stated.

EDIT: For those of you complaining about it I was told by CCP that changing corp in a a pod by ejecting and using that mechanic to join a war to point someone is OK so this is OK You cannot have it both ways!!!!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#64 - 2017-02-15 11:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Lan Wang wrote:
should of shot the pod...

That's what I said! Even 'carebears' like me get it... And Major - thanks for pointing out what most of us suspected: The guy that got CONCORDed almost certainly had his safety set to red.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2017-02-15 11:09:21 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
Do I want it fixed, hell no!

I respect your analysis, but "want" is kinda irrelevant as far as players are concerned. The "want" is in CCP's court. As in, "is this how they want their game to perform?" Whatever discussions they have internally, the answer will eventually be a simple yes/no, and appropriate action taken.

So we might be in for a "band-aid" fix (as you put it), regardless of what players want or don't want. I mean, they band-aid fixed hyperdunking although everything I heard on the matter was that it was an extremely niche and limited mechanic and I thought (and could be mistaken) that they said they'd only enact a change if it became widespread.

Now that this...let's call it a "technique" for now, has been posted to the forums, it might start getting traction. I can't see it being very widespread because it requires the target to have very fast reactions to get through the appropriate menu options plus the engaged ship has to have enough EHP to survive the time between initial attack and the pilot re-boarding. This is again something that seems like it'll be very niche and limited in capability, and if we learned anything from hyperdunking, that means it'll be patched in some fashion eventually.


To the OP - It's still in very, very bad form however to post about this on the forums, but I think that's already been pointed out. If it is a glitch or unintended loophole, you're supposed to file a ticket so CCP can nip it in the bud before it becomes a bigger problem. Blasting it on the forums makes their job harder and will endear you to no-one.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#66 - 2017-02-15 11:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: DioKahn
"7. People who continued to aggress the now neutral player got Concorded. For that to happen the player that died must have had his safety set to red. The OP claims they were all Green/Yellow. I would dispute that, but he may have been lied to by the pilot that died, it is common to cover up a stupid act especially when "exploit" was being shouted."

Exploits were used and abused and then called "game functionality". You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#67 - 2017-02-15 11:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Someone went red... 'cause they're absolutely dead. Twisted
Normally I don't get that much of a kick out these types of things, but this is better than a salt lick!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#68 - 2017-02-15 11:13:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol

Just Add Water
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#69 - 2017-02-15 11:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DioKahn
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol



Enjoy it while it lasts. In the end there will be nothing left to argue about and the carebears will have the chatroom that they always wanted.... ill be playing a newer and more interesting game with the rest of the entertainment.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#70 - 2017-02-15 11:16:55 UTC
Thanks for the responses guys.
I thought there was a LE involved, I was mistaken.
I just assumed it would be, as it seems like it ought to.
Learning stuff is fun.

o7

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#71 - 2017-02-15 11:17:42 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
Do I want it fixed, hell no!

I respect your analysis, but "want" is kinda irrelevant as far as players are concerned. The "want" is in CCP's court. As in, "is this how they want their game to perform?" Whatever discussions they have internally, the answer will eventually be a simple yes/no, and appropriate action taken.

So we might be in for a "band-aid" fix (as you put it), regardless of what players want or don't want. I mean, they band-aid fixed hyperdunking although everything I heard on the matter was that it was an extremely niche and limited mechanic and I thought (and could be mistaken) that they said they'd only enact a change if it became widespread.

Now that this...let's call it a "technique" for now, has been posted to the forums, it might start getting traction. I can't see it being very widespread because it requires the target to have very fast reactions to get through the appropriate menu options plus the engaged ship has to have enough EHP to survive the time between initial attack and the pilot re-boarding. This is again something that seems like it'll be very niche and limited in capability, and if we learned anything from hyperdunking, that means it'll be patched in some fashion eventually.


To the OP - It's still in very, very bad form however to post about this on the forums, but I think that's already been pointed out. If it is a glitch or unintended loophole, you're supposed to file a ticket so CCP can nip it in the bud before it becomes a bigger problem. Blasting it on the forums makes their job harder and will endear you to no-one.


dont get your hopes up, quick google search shows this has been discussed since as far back as 2009

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lucas Lucias
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#72 - 2017-02-15 11:20:12 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol



Enjoy it while it lasts. In the end there will be nothing left to argue about and the carebears will have the chatroom that they always wanted.... ill be playing a newer and more interesting game with the rest of the entertainment.


I think you are being a bit dumb here, war dec entities use this to catch people they could not catch any other way, I was told by CCP that what they had done was OK so what this player has done is OK.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2017-02-15 11:20:29 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
"7. People who continued to aggress the now neutral player got Concorded. For that to happen the player that died must have had his safety set to red. The OP claims they were all Green/Yellow. I would dispute that, but he may have been lied to by the pilot that died, it is common to cover up a stupid act especially when "exploit" was being shouted."

Exploits were used and abused and then called "game functionality". You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

If the pilot had his safety set to green he would be perfectly entitled to apply for a reimbursement and submit a bug report.

However, how is your statement that he had his safety set to green any less of an opinion, than my statement that it must have been set red?
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#74 - 2017-02-15 11:20:39 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol



Enjoy it while it lasts. In the end there will be nothing left to argue about and the carebears will have the chatroom that they always wanted.... ill be playing a newer and more interesting game with the rest of the entertainment.


can i haz your stuff?

i dare you to biomass DioKahn now dude, lol.

Just Add Water
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#75 - 2017-02-15 11:21:03 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys.
I thought there was a LE involved, I was mistaken.
I just assumed it would be, as it seems like it ought to.
Learning stuff is fun.

o7

There should have been.... but this is the new CCP.
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#76 - 2017-02-15 11:22:09 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol



Enjoy it while it lasts. In the end there will be nothing left to argue about and the carebears will have the chatroom that they always wanted.... ill be playing a newer and more interesting game with the rest of the entertainment.


can i haz your stuff?

i dare you to biomass DioKahn now dude, lol.

Calm down miner. You try too hard. I am speaking about the future. Keep your bummy hands out of my pockets!
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2017-02-15 11:22:31 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
dont get your hopes up, quick google search shows this has been discussed since as far back as 2009

I'm not hoping for one thing or another actually; this subject doesn't effect me :) I do appreciate it as a learning moment though. It feels like I learn something new about this game every week.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#78 - 2017-02-15 11:25:32 UTC
DioKahn wrote:

Calm down miner. You try too hard. I am speaking about the future. Keep your bummy hands out of my pockets!


you could always go to lowsec or null, i mean you will save a wardec fee Lol

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#79 - 2017-02-15 11:27:02 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
DioKahn, considering your deliberate disruptive shiptoasting in previous threads, thanks for the hearty laughs I am enjoying from schadenfreude.


i second to this. Lol



Enjoy it while it lasts. In the end there will be nothing left to argue about and the carebears will have the chatroom that they always wanted.... ill be playing a newer and more interesting game with the rest of the entertainment.


can i haz your stuff?

i dare you to biomass DioKahn now dude, lol.

Calm down miner. You try too hard. I am speaking about the future. Keep your bummy hands out of my pockets!


the irony. Roll

Just Add Water
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#80 - 2017-02-15 11:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DioKahn
I want all pilots to develop this "technique" into their current skill set. I can guarantee you that mercs flying T3's will be ejecting, leaving corp, and flying away with our ships when the fight turns sour. Ive dropped roles and I'm ready to "PvP" in the new EvE.

Edit: Thanks for the posts. Goodnight. End of story for me.... that means sleep. Stay tuned for my next thread and I appreciate the PvPers who speak out in such an anti PvP forum.