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Pure tank for missions?

Author
Seonna Sharp
Guardians of the Illuminati
#1 - 2017-02-05 04:21:47 UTC
Hello!

I am new to the game, I like doing missions and was wondering if there is such a thing as a 100% tank fit and 100% damage fit or is there always room for tank and damage on the same ship?

Thank you for any information you can give me.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2017-02-05 04:43:57 UTC
Yes, you can definitely run a 100% maximum potential damage fit - but will still have room for mimimal tank. The reverse is also true in that you can run a 100% tank fit but will still have a base DPS unless you opt not to mount any weapons or drones (not recommended). Depending on the ship and function (blizting vs. clearing), you may be able to achieve maximum damage, great performance and a decent tank. Skills and implants can really make or break a fit, though.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2017-02-05 04:46:38 UTC
nope, 100% tank, well you can't complete almost all of the missions without any damage, I suppose technically there are a few and you could do them, but it won't be fun or profitable.

100% damage, well that actually kinda works. In lower level (1-3) missions you can do enough damage that you kill every npc before you run out of hitpoints. it works in a bunch of lv4s too, but maybe not a good general strategy.

every ship should want a bit of both. I favor damage, most of my ships have a resist mod or two and a rep for tank, typically a 200-300 ehp/s tank on top of ~50k ehp. I mostly rely on damage to clear the field before I run out of hitpoints. I just wrote a post about an old rule that said for level 4 missions your dps and your tank should total 1000, with a suggested minimum of 300 for either. and of course anything over 1000 combined is great. Typically a low dps ship needs a higher tank because it will have trouble clearing the npcs so it is in the mission longer and takes more hits. and on the opposite a high dps fit can use its buffer for tank as it clears the field quickly and repairs the buffer while taking less damage.

some people want the tank because they might have to go afk at any moment, or just want to chill out while they watch some explosions in space.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Seonna Sharp
Guardians of the Illuminati
#4 - 2017-02-05 04:58:36 UTC
Thank you. I was thinking of maybe using two accounts, one for damage and one for tanking. So, just fly into the mission and get every enemy to attack and then come in with the damage ship and clear it out super fast. No idea what ships to do this with though. I enjoy using missiles so probably gonna go for that, but no idea what kind of tank is the best tank. Passive tank would maybe be the best so that I can focus on the damage ship, or active tank that can run forever? Any suggestions?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#5 - 2017-02-05 05:29:27 UTC
That doesn't quite work since in most missions the rats can switch aggro.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Seonna Sharp
Guardians of the Illuminati
#6 - 2017-02-05 05:38:08 UTC
Really? Ok. I thought that when they first agro something, they never switch. I know that when new rats spawn, it can be iffy though.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#7 - 2017-02-05 13:59:06 UTC
compared to others i seem to overtank my pve ships but i can still chuck out a shedload of dps too

my usual raven in lv4 guristas missions does 915dps,has application mods, 450hp/s tank with a 100000 effective tank according to eft. also has 30 min cap with everything running. the one thing i do always sacrifice is a prop mod though.... i could fit an xl booster for more tank at cost of cap, but sadly i have crappy internet so i need to be cap stable or i lose my ships

the joy is finding a fit that is fun for you and reasonably effective
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2017-02-05 16:46:12 UTC
There's nothing wrong with overtanking your fit. There's also nothing wrong with undertanking it, either. What a lot of players forget is that your damage output is also your tank: the more enemies you eliminate - the less tank you need. If you like "living on the edge" there are a few fits that have been shared that have mind-blowing performance - but need a high level of experience and skill to operate successfully (you need to have excellent mission comprehension of triggers, aggro and objectives). That's part of the risk - and the challenge.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#9 - 2017-02-05 17:24:47 UTC
Seonna Sharp wrote:
Thank you. I was thinking of maybe using two accounts, one for damage and one for tanking. So, just fly into the mission and get every enemy to attack and then come in with the damage ship and clear it out super fast. No idea what ships to do this with though. I enjoy using missiles so probably gonna go for that, but no idea what kind of tank is the best tank. Passive tank would maybe be the best so that I can focus on the damage ship, or active tank that can run forever? Any suggestions?

That way of tninking suggests you came here from playing other games. In EVE there is no dedicated "tank" nor "damage" ship (there's a "healer" though, just not for missions). As pointed already you need both damage and tank. Since you're new you'll be going for as much tank as you can, so you don't die, and then trying to put enough damage to be able to kill stuff. Later when you improve your skills and gain experience you will naturally drift into opposite direciton: dishing out as much damage as you can while having as small tank as possible while still allowing you to survive.

I don't use missile ships myself but I happen to know that Drake is very common go-to ship for inexperienced mission runners. It's capable for running Level 3 missions and with care, some Level 4s. It should be good choice for time when you learn your ropes and master all required skills.

To the question of tank. Passive tank is easier because it just works. The price is that it occupies more slots which otherwise you could use for improving both raw damage and its application. The active uses less modules for the same level of protection but it's something you have to keep you eye on. Typical evolution of mission runners is to start with passive or with cap stable active and later go to unstable active.

Take your time. Start with something safe but always keep pushing boundaries.

Hope this helps.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2017-02-06 01:02:32 UTC
Seonna Sharp wrote:
Really? Ok. I thought that when they first agro something, they never switch. I know that when new rats spawn, it can be iffy though.

they used to be like that then CCP made the AI a teeny bit better

I like pithum c-type medium shield boosters, cheap and easy to run with battleship cap. Tanks pretty much every mission just fine with 2-3 specific hardeners, and if you are going to be running two ships I'd probably just slap two invluns on and not bother changing. between npcs switching aggro, HP buffers, and the dps from 2 bs it will be sufficient tank for pretty much everything.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Seonna Sharp
Guardians of the Illuminati
#11 - 2017-02-06 16:48:11 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Seonna Sharp wrote:
Really? Ok. I thought that when they first agro something, they never switch. I know that when new rats spawn, it can be iffy though.

they used to be like that then CCP made the AI a teeny bit better

I like pithum c-type medium shield boosters, cheap and easy to run with battleship cap. Tanks pretty much every mission just fine with 2-3 specific hardeners, and if you are going to be running two ships I'd probably just slap two invluns on and not bother changing. between npcs switching aggro, HP buffers, and the dps from 2 bs it will be sufficient tank for pretty much everything.


I guess this will have to be the way then. Just run pretty much the same on both if rats are going to be splitting up aggro. I was hoping to be able to focus just tanking skills on one of them and just dps skills on the other, but from what you guys are saying that wont work too well.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2017-02-06 17:33:13 UTC
AI switch targets quite frequently. The only guaranteed way to force them to focus on a single target is for any other ships to leave the battlefield.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

revirded
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#13 - 2017-02-06 20:35:08 UTC
someone told me npc like to target ewar ships over others so if u have something like ecm or target painter they will target that ship over the other not sure if true or not
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2017-02-06 20:39:54 UTC
revirded wrote:
someone told me npc like to target ewar ships over others so if u have something like ecm or target painter they will target that ship over the other not sure if true or not

Not necessarily. Sometimes you can bait them with electronic warfare. Sometimes it works - sometimes not.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Maxx Run
Maxx Run Blueprint Services
#15 - 2017-02-14 19:53:27 UTC
You mentioned two clients, I would therefore recommend two buffer fitted Deeps beasts. As said above, attack is the best form of defence and will net you a lot more ISKies than boring 1k tank ticklers...

Just my 2 cents Bear

We sell high ME - Sub-Cap Ship, Mod, Rig and Ammo BPC's - All at great prices! The best in the game, we were genetically engineered for this work!!

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2017-02-14 20:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
It really depends. On paper, two ships with a higher combined DPS looks good. But you have to dock/undock both, fleet up, warp together and then perform the same micromanagement with two ships. No matter how effective you are you do lose some DPS in the process. The only missions where this really pays off are full clears where you're after straight bounties.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#17 - 2017-02-15 08:42:48 UTC
I run heavy tanks on my ships to include my paladin. just the other day my client stopped in the middle of blockade. if I had been running my golem I or some of my other heavy dps ships I would have been dead. I prefer caution when things can go as not planned in missions like being permajammed by a frig that you cant kill because it got under your guns or is 95 kms away and you have blasters.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2017-02-15 09:25:37 UTC
You really only have to worry about a crash if you're in Bastion mode.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-02-15 22:18:20 UTC
With mobile depots you can do both. Start off with 100% damage shoot some guys, switch to full tank to rep up, then back to full damage. It works in some situations. I used to do it effectively with a RattleSnake in Wormholes. I know you were asking for missions but the same concept applies.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2017-02-15 23:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Just a note: You can't refit with mobile depots while in Bastion mode in a Marauder anymore. For "stand and clear" missions it used to make things a lot more interesting - but now you pretty much have to choose before you warp to the mission. As was mentioned above - it's still a viable strategy for all other ships.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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