These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Suicide Gankers

Author
Amojin
Doomheim
#121 - 2017-02-15 00:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Teckos Peck wrote:

He is talking about miner ganking. If you are in anything other than a procuror or skiff you are in trouble. Why he isn't in a procuror IDK.



Sure you do. Greed and laziness. Or, as Indiana Jones told Jonathan Quan's 'Short Round' character, Fortune and Glory, kid. Forune and Glory.

Well, We don't all have 'Short Round' to drive us away and scream at the woman 'You call him Docta Jones, doll.'
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#122 - 2017-02-15 00:38:32 UTC
Ohhh miner ganking? In that case you've even less to worry about...

Fly a proc.

GG

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#123 - 2017-02-15 00:41:55 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Ohhh miner ganking? In that case you've even less to worry about...

Fly a proc.

GG


Yup, fly a procuror and you're good to go.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#124 - 2017-02-15 07:00:05 UTC
So ... if you don´t like the mechanics you are the carebear and you are crying? ok than everything is fine !


Thx for all the real depp knowledge you chared in here but i doubt things are getting better when guys who **** mechanics are the only ppl speak in here :_)!

I´m will go on using the not broken mechanics on gates to happily shoot ppl just to wapr to a bounce and back no matter what timers are on me!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#125 - 2017-02-15 07:10:43 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
I´m will go on using the not broken mechanics on gates to happily shoot ppl just to wapr to a bounce and back no matter what timers are on me!

Your lack of knowledge about game mechanics lets me doubt you are doing any of this.

A carebear is someone who comes to the forum crying for change because he thinks he is entitled to more safety. You have repeatedly cried for more safety, therefore you are a carebear.

The mechanics are not broken, they are intended this way and are well balanced.

If you think this is broken because something similar would count as an exploit in another game, well EVE is not that other game, it was designed as a PvP sandbox and highsec ganking is there for a reason.

WoW is this way Arrow
Black Pedro
Mine.
#126 - 2017-02-15 07:13:19 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
So ... if you don´t like the mechanics you are the carebear and you are crying? ok than everything is fine !


Thx for all the real depp knowledge you chared in here but i doubt things are getting better when guys who **** mechanics are the only ppl speak in here :_)!

I´m will go on using the not broken mechanics on gates to happily shoot ppl just to wapr to a bounce and back no matter what timers are on me!
No, if you don't like the fact that players are competing with and shooting one another, and go on to complain that CCP should make the game or the NPCs save you, then you are a carebear.

It's a competitive sandbox. Use the toys and tools to your advantage and play with the other players. If you think of something that might make the game more interesting or fun, by all means share it, but don't whine for CCP to make you safe from the other players because you would rather be watching Netflix while you play, or especially because you lost a ship because of your inattention or your inferior or sloppy play.

Enough content has been nerfed out of the game in the name of players whining for more safety under the guise of "balance" or "fairness". Balance or fairness is not what makes Eve fun or interesting to play. Stop agitating to change the game in your favour or to what you think you want it to be and just learn the mechanics and play the damn game.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#127 - 2017-02-15 07:24:47 UTC
IvanPetrovich Ivanov wrote:
Freedom to 1 button destroyer riders = no freedom to miners. I think that ganker's life is too simple. F1 - Alt-Tab-"loot all"-15 minutes in station - F1 - ...

Just pretending that someone elses gameplay is too easy is not really a good argument, especially if you then demonstrate that you have no clue about game mechanics and complain about how hard it is to kill gankers.

Maybe you should think a moment about why that is the case. The whole playing field is indeed stacked against the ganker and you can indeed shoot them on sight and have even NPC support, so you just have to hold them in place for a few seconds before FacPo kills them of.

Now you come here and cry because you got no instant win and did not manage to wipe out a fleet of gankers at the first try without knowing anything at all about the game mechanics involved. Bad chance...

Maybe you should put some more effort into it before complaining and claiming we can't be harmed. The reason why it is difficult to catch us is because we PUT A LOT OF EFFORT ONTO IT. ---> EFFORT <---. Well it is probably much more convenient to just come to the forums and cry for CCPs help than to actually play the game by the rules.
Mr Quisno
Doomheim
#128 - 2017-02-15 07:48:47 UTC
Olleg wrote:
As I see EVE is still invaded by Suicide Gankers. Developers do nothing because this is not conflict with game mechanic. But, lets look from other side. There are NPC empires. And there are constantly repeated crime. What will do a real empire in this case? It will change law. What can be changed? For instance. If someone blow property of other player in empire space he will lost not only security standing, but also he will owe money to the property owner. And before he return the dept he will wear status "outlaw". This will not give problem in case of engaging by mistake, on one hand, but on other professional suicide gankers will get feeling of real outlaw and civil force will have fair chance to protect honest traders.



They should pay back damages in 25% of the mount they blow up or face the fact they can't get higher security stands until the damages are paid back. The damages they cause should be paid to players or concord. This could replace the bounty system. Knowing the fact they can't come back in empire until they paid the fine and take the time to get their standing higher again.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2017-02-15 07:55:40 UTC
Mr Quisno wrote:
Olleg wrote:
As I see EVE is still invaded by Suicide Gankers. Developers do nothing because this is not conflict with game mechanic. But, lets look from other side. There are NPC empires. And there are constantly repeated crime. What will do a real empire in this case? It will change law. What can be changed? For instance. If someone blow property of other player in empire space he will lost not only security standing, but also he will owe money to the property owner. And before he return the dept he will wear status "outlaw". This will not give problem in case of engaging by mistake, on one hand, but on other professional suicide gankers will get feeling of real outlaw and civil force will have fair chance to protect honest traders.



They should pay back damages in 25% of the mount they blow up or face the fact they can't get higher security stands until the damages are paid back. The damages they cause should be paid to players or concord. This could replace the bounty system. Knowing the fact they can't come back in empire until they paid the fine and take the time to get their standing higher again.


Or maybe you could just play more prudently....Roll

Jesus why is this so hard?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Black Pedro
Mine.
#130 - 2017-02-15 08:27:44 UTC
Mr Quisno wrote:
Olleg wrote:
As I see EVE is still invaded by Suicide Gankers. Developers do nothing because this is not conflict with game mechanic. But, lets look from other side. There are NPC empires. And there are constantly repeated crime. What will do a real empire in this case? It will change law. What can be changed? For instance. If someone blow property of other player in empire space he will lost not only security standing, but also he will owe money to the property owner. And before he return the dept he will wear status "outlaw". This will not give problem in case of engaging by mistake, on one hand, but on other professional suicide gankers will get feeling of real outlaw and civil force will have fair chance to protect honest traders.



They should pay back damages in 25% of the mount they blow up or face the fact they can't get higher security stands until the damages are paid back. The damages they cause should be paid to players or concord. This could replace the bounty system. Knowing the fact they can't come back in empire until they paid the fine and take the time to get their standing higher again.


Sweet Xenu, is there something in the water? I'm disappointed in you Eve-O forums. I thought after years of wrangling we had all grown past these type of suggestions that completely miss the basic point of the game.

Why would CCP do this? Criminal gameplay in highsec is a feature and an intended career, not some sort of mistake. Players are suppose to be the bad guys, even in highsec, and have been for almost 14 years now. Suicide ganking isn't an exploit. It isn't an oversight, a side-effect, an afterthought, or even emergent behaviour. CrimeWatch was intricately engineered so that players can shoot each other in highsec, and if they do so repeatedly they become an outlaw who enjoys less and less protections, culminating with being perma-chased by NPCs and free-to-shoot by everyone, but still able to operate as a career criminal.

So with that in mind, why then, would CCP punish intended gameplay with direct fines? That's like CCP deciding miners are mining too much so to discourage that impose a 25% mining tax. That is inane. If CCP thinks players are mining too much they should just turn down the yields. Similarly, if CCP think there is too much suicide ganking (or probably from their point of view a lack of effective counters to suicide ganking), or that they don't want it to exist at all, they have many simpler options than fining criminals. They can make industrial ships stronger, make CONCORD faster, or the nuclear option, lock all safeties to yellow/green.

But the thing is CCP wants people to be able to shoot you in highsec and try to take your stuff. If it an important and intended part of the game that gives meaning to fitting choices and rewards non-AFK play. They aren't going to discourage intended gameplay. If they decide it isn't intended anymore, they will just remove it like that have done with so many emergent, content-creating mechanics before. But they have been explicitly clear both on the forums, and in other places like the CSM minutes, that suicide ganking is suppose to exist and part of how they want the game to work.

Instead of asking CCP to save you, why don't you just take some time to review the large collection of options you have to operate in highsec almost completely safely? If you can't find that information, evemail me and I will give you some tips. I think you'll find it is not the rocket science that the tears shed in the forums might lead one to believe.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#131 - 2017-02-15 13:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Carebear

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#132 - 2017-02-15 14:13:02 UTC
IvanPetrovich Ivanov wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


You do realize you can shoot the gankers right? You can counter their player action with your won player action?

This is of course forgetting all the other options not involving shooting them.

I'm pretty sure I made a short list earlier in this very thread.


Answer is no.
Problem is that you can not shoot the ganker. It is not possible in the game. I really should explain why? Gank-alts, low possibility to find him, low chance to catch before he warps, e.t.c.. Yes, I tried. I could shoot only pods of AFK alts. And scanners at the gates few times. How I can catch a ganker if I am luck to find him? He doesn't use autopilot. It is a one-way street. May be I am not smart enough? Can you show me your kills of code or other gankers?

2-nd answer is also no.
There are options to minimize your losses and maximize their. But as they gank for trollling, but not for gameplay reasons, it doesn't work:

- I had insurance and lost only 6 mils. You and your friend lost 20 mils. Why?
- Ha ha I don't care about isks. Suffer you carebear!

May be cost of t2 Catalyst is too small?

It is like teamkilling in other games. It has no sense, but some sort of players enjoy it very much because it hurts people. Non-gameplay motivation, to troll.


They have to be on grid with you in order to shoot you so they obviously can't warp away. If you kill them before they kill you, you effectively prevented the gank. If they team up on you, then counter this by teaming up. Gank ships are notorious for being really low on tank so burning them down is not exactly a feat of strength. A **** load of their losses to CONCORD are on killboard so determining their exact tank value and what is their resist holes is not hard. I's more effort than losing a T2 BPO in a freighter tho so maybe it's more than some people can muster.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#133 - 2017-02-15 14:19:46 UTC
You don't even have to kill them. T1 dessies have low sensor str and barges can use ecm drones.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2017-02-15 14:24:30 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You don't even have to kill them. T1 dessies have low sensor str and barges can use ecm drones.



Never said it was the only option or even the best one.
Katsuya Kobayashi
#135 - 2017-02-15 16:19:58 UTC
Olleg wrote:
As I see EVE is still invaded by Suicide Gankers. Developers do nothing because this is not conflict with game mechanic. But, lets look from other side. There are NPC empires. And there are constantly repeated crime. What will do a real empire in this case? It will change law. What can be changed? For instance. If someone blow property of other player in empire space he will lost not only security standing, but also he will owe money to the property owner. And before he return the dept he will wear status "outlaw". This will not give problem in case of engaging by mistake, on one hand, but on other professional suicide gankers will get feeling of real outlaw and civil force will have fair chance to protect honest traders.



To be fair. High sec should not exist. Just be glad you actually have a safe haven that doesn't make any sense what so ever.
Cade Windstalker
#136 - 2017-02-15 17:02:17 UTC
Katsuya Kobayashi wrote:
Olleg wrote:
As I see EVE is still invaded by Suicide Gankers. Developers do nothing because this is not conflict with game mechanic. But, lets look from other side. There are NPC empires. And there are constantly repeated crime. What will do a real empire in this case? It will change law. What can be changed? For instance. If someone blow property of other player in empire space he will lost not only security standing, but also he will owe money to the property owner. And before he return the dept he will wear status "outlaw". This will not give problem in case of engaging by mistake, on one hand, but on other professional suicide gankers will get feeling of real outlaw and civil force will have fair chance to protect honest traders.



To be fair. High sec should not exist. Just be glad you actually have a safe haven that doesn't make any sense what so ever.


Lol! You're just as bad as OP... Lol

How does it not make sense to you? From a gameplay perspective? From a lore perspective?
Otlichnick
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#137 - 2017-03-12 01:24:02 UTC
Things ganking provides:

1. Fun game experience for some doing the ganking.
2. ****** experience for anyone else trying to do other things in the game.

I think that's about it.

Recently returned from a long break from eve. As with all of us we burn out a bit so we take breaks.
I kept my account plexed up though as I like the sp but also enjoy knowing I'm one more account that hasn't left EvE.
We all know this game is not doing the best so keeping my account plexed and training skills for no reason at least helps that bottom line for everyone(keeping eve around to play).

Anyway as some players would like to say, i screwed up and put to much stuff in my t2 cargo ship and was greated by CODE about 4 or 5 jumps from jita with a nice group of code with 15+ tornados.. I have to say they are getting smarter now and not using all 15 at first go and slowing applying more until they are sure the ship is going down. Good for you guys.

It was a substantial loss on my end of like 3bn ish random modules (they got half) I was taking to station to seed so the players there could have easier access to actual content or to create it them selves. Oh well.. now its not just a ****** experience for me but also all the guys that would have benefited from that market seed.

I know and have heard all the excuses to keep ganking in the game.

Im pretty sure only the people getting rich off of ganking are the ones agreeing with these excuses.

When 2 people or entities in eve go to war in eve and one gets rich and the other loses everything no one is asking ccp to change the rules because of war is bad.... That is PVP and THAT is what we all want.

SO anyway Its hard to take that kind of treatment and walk away from eve with out letting ccp or the community why its just not worth the effort to keep trying to put content in the game.

NO ONE WANTS TO ESCORT CARGO FOR FUN.
It is NOT what people want in a game lore or realism aside.

Even if that's what it took, when everyone is escorting their cargo, the CODE business would adjust and find a new cool way to cause tears.

This ganking thing has to stop or something. Its about the only thing in the game that pushes me away from it other than monotony which can be overcome by trying something new. I am sure this is how alot feel.

Many do not want a group of people running around in highsec telling everyone else how much stuff they can put in their ships for no other reason that it can be profitable for them to take your stuff with out a fight or wardec.

It is easier to walk away from eve than to try and argue with the ganking community. The fact that it is such a big community is messed up in its self.

I try to think of how we sell this game to our friends and from each prospective of gameplay.
Ganker: come play this game eve with me. we just sit here on a gate and wait for the scanner to tell us what ships to attack then we get rich and can play for free with our efforts. its hella awesome pvp!

Non-Ganker: id tell you to play eve but its pretty tough game takes a long time to learn and you have to watch out because there are whole groups of people that will just kill you for no reason and you cant tell who they are till they show up and there is nothing you can do back you just have to eat it and still try and have fun... you know what.. screw eve lets go play something else.



Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#138 - 2017-03-12 02:19:38 UTC
Otlichnick wrote:
i screwed up and put to much stuff in my t2 cargo ship


And this is the only part of your post that matters. You screwed up, put too much stuff in a ship that is too fragile to protect it, and you paid the inevitable price for your stupidity. No amount of "bad experience" whining will change the fact that you explicitly invited the gankers to kill you instead of making a trivial effort to protect your investment. This feature is working exactly as it should.

Quote:
NO ONE WANTS TO ESCORT CARGO FOR FUN.
It is NOT what people want in a game lore or realism aside.


Well too bad. I don't want to lose a pod full of expensive implants for fun, but I don't go whining to CCP to make pods invulnerable. Escorting cargo ships makes perfect sense from a realism/lore point of view, and it makes sense from a gameplay point of view.

Quote:
Many do not want a group of people running around in highsec telling everyone else how much stuff they can put in their ships for no other reason that it can be profitable for them to take your stuff with out a fight or wardec.


Too bad for them. Stupid decisions are punished in EVE. If you don't understand this simple principle then maybe EVE is not the game for you.

Quote:
there is nothing you can do back you just have to eat it and still try and have fun


Nope, you just suck at EVE. I've hauled expensive cargo plenty of times and the only time I've been ganked was when I was autopiloting a T1 hauler with a pair of Raptors (back when they were trash and worthless) that I didn't care about. It's very easy to avoid getting ganked if you're willing to put the effort into protecting yourself. Instead of whining about how hard life is perhaps you should teach new players how to avoid ganks and how to laugh at the idiots who died. Or perhaps you could tell them how to invest in manufacturing the ships that suicide gankers use, and make a nice profit.
Otlichnick
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#139 - 2017-03-12 04:22:34 UTC
Merin Ryskin you are obviously part of the problem. I don't see how anything you have to say benefits to further the discussion.

Your points are nonsense and you immediately resort to name calling. This is EXACTLY the type of people that ruin any positive change for this game and why eve is completely stagnant in this area.

Right now there is no safe place in eve except inside a station. Once someone is in a station they can not be ganked though I imagine if a ganker could figure out how to take all of someones stuff even while they were docked up they wouldn't think twice.

Protecting a game play style of this type of person should never be in the interest of a community. There has to be limits and many people think they should extend outside the station environment.

When ganking turns to griefing, it is obviously out of control.

Mark my words the day CCP declares no more ganking in HS is the day 30k actual people resub and the ganking community can see what a scab they are on the gaming world because I realize its more a mentality that can not be reasoned with or helped and not something native to eve online. The same people that gank in eve are the same people that end up making every other game **** to play over time when they run rampant with out control.

Quote:

I've hauled expensive cargo plenty of times and the only time I've been ganked was when I was autopiloting a T1 hauler with a pair of Raptors


You obviously don't understand the extent of the ganking going on in eve online. Do you even play? I have avoided more ganks than i have been ganked. I'm more here for a voice of reason which most do not seem to have. Taking away highsec ganking shouldn't stop code from doing what they like, it should just make them do it somewhere else. Why cant the gankers move out of the way for others. Why should people not interested in your game style have to deal with you.

I imagine gankers don't make up the majority of eve players. I would like to know that statistic.

If avoiding a gank was so easy there wouldn't be 190bn isk kills every month. No matter how you fit a ship it can be ganked.
You have already been scanned and then calculated by a web page which shows exactly what is needed to take down the target (you).

I can not think of one aspect of the game that would be bad if we got rid of ganking in highsec.


Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#140 - 2017-03-12 06:08:38 UTC
Otlichnick wrote:
Protecting a game play style of this type of person should never be in the interest of a community. There has to be limits and many people think they should extend outside the station environment.

When ganking turns to griefing, it is obviously out of control.


Clearly you don't understand EVE. From day 1 things like suicide ganking have been a deliberate part of the design concept. It's survival of the fittest, you either figure out how to survive or you die and ragequit. And given how easy it is to avoid getting suicide ganked there is no balance problem, people need to learn to stop being terrible at EVE.

And no, ganking isn't griefing. It's fun, and it's a highly profitable business strategy.

Quote:
Mark my words the day CCP declares no more ganking in HS is the day 30k actual people resub


And it's the day EVE dies as way more than 30k people have no interest in WoW in space. The thing that makes EVE different is that it's a cold, dark universe in which the strong prosper and the weak are slaughtered. Making highsec 100% safe by removing suicide ganking would mean violating this fundamental principle, and demonstrate a new direction of game design that many of us have zero interest in seeing.

Quote:
aking away highsec ganking shouldn't stop code from doing what they like, it should just make them do it somewhere else. Why cant the gankers move out of the way for others. Why should people not interested in your game style have to deal with you.


Again, you don't understand EVE. You have to deal with my game style because I'm stronger than you, and I get to kill you. If you want people to move you get guns of your own and force them to move. This is how it has been since the beginning, and how it hopefully will continue to be.

Quote:
If avoiding a gank was so easy there wouldn't be 190bn isk kills every month. No matter how you fit a ship it can be ganked.


There are 190bn ISK worth of gank kills because many people in EVE are lazy and/or stupid, and voluntarily offer up their expensive ships as gank fodder. Evading ganking is easy: insta-warp frigates for low-volume cargo, blockade runners for mid-volume cargo, and freighters filled with less value than the cost of a gank for the rest. And if you lead with a scout you can make sure that no gankers are there when you jump in. But people insist on cramming as much ISK as possible into a fragile ship, and then flying blind into each jump as if there's nothing to worry about. And it's a good thing that stupidity like that is punished.