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Sick and tired of shield miners

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2017-02-14 00:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
For that matter, other of the Gallente drone ships are usable shield tanked too.


Indeed, the Algos works fairly well shield tanked, Domi's do too.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Amojin
Doomheim
#82 - 2017-02-14 00:58:59 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Fine. I know the Myrmidon best. Let's have that word. You have 1000 less hp's of shield than armor.

You have 5 mediums, and 6 lows. You are a drone boat. You should have drone mods in highs, and your holy trinity in the mids.
That leaves 2 mids for drone upgrades.

Your tank is, obviously, in the lows.

Make your big argument.
An AC/Arty passive shield tanked Myrmidon is a scary thing to get on the wrong side of, while I certainly wouldn't solo PvP in one, with others on the field providing tackle and boosts they soak up damage like a sponge and dish out a serious amount of hurt.

For PvE purposes it's fairly easy to set one up that passively tanks silly amounts of incoming damage while still being able to put the hurt on NPC's.


So, baiscally, when you gots your crew around, you a big deal?

Not a surprise. If I had a big crew around, I could do that, too. We're talking, though, not about going against design constraints, but working with them.

Or, wait. I can't. Because all miners are shields.
Amojin
Doomheim
#83 - 2017-02-14 01:00:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Being stubborn is your problem. I exclusively fly Gallente yet my shield tanking skills are almost maxed out because every little helps.



Fine. You have that option. It's stupid, given the recent changes, but ok. You want a shield tanked Gallente ship? Go ahead and die.
The shield Megathron, shield Myrmidon, shield Nereus and shield Brutix would like a word with you


For that matter, other of the Gallente drone ships are usable shield tanked too.


[/quote]The Algos works fairly well shield tanked, Domi's do too.
[/quote]

Nice quotes... I hit the Myrmidon, already. I don't want to waste the isk for anything else until I hit the Kronos. I'll let you know, then, but it won't mean **** about the current topic, will it, mining ships?
Amojin
Doomheim
#84 - 2017-02-14 01:01:18 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Being stubborn is your problem. I exclusively fly Gallente yet my shield tanking skills are almost maxed out because every little helps.



Fine. You have that option. It's stupid, given the recent changes, but ok. You want a shield tanked Gallente ship? Go ahead and die.
The shield Megathron, shield Myrmidon, shield Nereus and shield Brutix would like a word with you


For that matter, other of the Gallente drone ships are usable shield tanked too.


The Algos works fairly well shield tanked, Domi's do too.
[/quote]''


Nice quotes... I hit the Myrmidon, already. I don't want to waste the isk for anything else until I hit the Kronos. I'll let you know, then, but it won't mean **** about the current topic, will it, mining ships?[/quote]
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2017-02-14 01:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Hatfield
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
An AC/Arty passive shield tanked Myrmidon is a scary thing to get on the wrong side of, while I certainly wouldn't solo PvP in one, with others on the field providing tackle and boosts they soak up damage like a sponge and dish out a serious amount of hurt.

For PvE purposes it's fairly easy to set one up that passively tanks silly amounts of incoming damage while still being able to put the hurt on NPC's.


So, baiscally, when you gots your crew around, you a big deal?

Not a surprise. If I had a big crew around, I could do that, too.
The most basic of force multipliers is people working together to support each others roles Shocked

Quote:
So We're talking, though, not about going against design constraints, but working with them.
Actually we're talking about working around them to suit our purposes and get a leg up on the other guy.

If you think that shield tanking a gallente ship is bad that's your perogative, other people will disagree and many of the ones that do have vastly more experience with getting the most out of ships, even while ignoring the native bonus's, than you do.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Amojin
Doomheim
#86 - 2017-02-14 01:09:22 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The real reason has been given.

More low slots = people will just cram them full of mining laser upgrades, not tank.


They broke up drone upgrades to all three slots.

Is it so hard, they can't repeat this?

I already said it before, but I'll say it again. They did not break up the drone upgrades, they brought them more in line with the turret upgrades. There are still no damage mods for drones in the med slots, only damage application mods. If anything, they added *more* drone mods that you might want to cram into your lows. (called Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancers - look it up, they go into the lowslots).

So I will ask again: Do you have trouble tracking those roids with your mining laser?


I will tell you again. It is offensive to me to require Gallente Starship Engineering for these pieces of ****. This is a Caldari vessel. Every single one of them.

Then call them that. Admit that you are going to be unfair, and there's nothing we can do about it, but be at least honest enough to be a **** in public.
Amojin
Doomheim
#87 - 2017-02-14 01:10:57 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
An AC/Arty passive shield tanked Myrmidon is a scary thing to get on the wrong side of, while I certainly wouldn't solo PvP in one, with others on the field providing tackle and boosts they soak up damage like a sponge and dish out a serious amount of hurt.

For PvE purposes it's fairly easy to set one up that passively tanks silly amounts of incoming damage while still being able to put the hurt on NPC's.


So, baiscally, when you gots your crew around, you a big deal?

Not a surprise. If I had a big crew around, I could do that, too.
The most basic of force multipliers is other people working together to support each others roles Shocked

Quote:
So We're talking, though, not about going against design constraints, but working with them.
Actually we're talking about working around them to suit our purposes and get a leg up on the other guy.

If you think that shield tanking a gallente ship is bad that's your perogative, other people will disagree and many of the ones that do have vastly more experience with getting the most out of ships, even while ignoring the native bonus's, than you do.



Would you say that such expertise is the majority, or the minority of the playerbase?
Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2017-02-14 01:14:04 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
An AC/Arty passive shield tanked Myrmidon is a scary thing to get on the wrong side of, while I certainly wouldn't solo PvP in one, with others on the field providing tackle and boosts they soak up damage like a sponge and dish out a serious amount of hurt.

For PvE purposes it's fairly easy to set one up that passively tanks silly amounts of incoming damage while still being able to put the hurt on NPC's.


So, baiscally, when you gots your crew around, you a big deal?

Not a surprise. If I had a big crew around, I could do that, too.
The most basic of force multipliers is other people working together to support each others roles Shocked

Quote:
So We're talking, though, not about going against design constraints, but working with them.
Actually we're talking about working around them to suit our purposes and get a leg up on the other guy.

If you think that shield tanking a gallente ship is bad that's your perogative, other people will disagree and many of the ones that do have vastly more experience with getting the most out of ships, even while ignoring the native bonus's, than you do.



Would you say that such expertise is the majority, or the minority of the playerbase?
Just as in any other activity the extremely knowledgeable people are in the minority, your posting places you firmly in the ignorant majority.

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2017-02-14 01:18:46 UTC
Then fly the Prospect, with 4 lows and 3 mids it is easier to armor tank; leaving the mids free for a prop mod, survey mod, and a random. Plus it can warp cloaked. This swiss knife gets into any hole. Can do Ore, Ice and Gas.

Order now, and get a free set veldspar mining crystals.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#90 - 2017-02-14 01:37:27 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The real reason has been given.

More low slots = people will just cram them full of mining laser upgrades, not tank.

Then give the ship less mining bonus to regulate the more lowslots. Wich means, more choice. Right?

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2017-02-14 01:43:05 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
Is there a gameplay problem with shield tanked mining ships or are you just complaining?


Just complaining.

ORE ships are not Gallente ships. This is like complaining you can't armor tank Caldari ships.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2017-02-14 01:44:24 UTC
Mark O'Helm wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The real reason has been given.

More low slots = people will just cram them full of mining laser upgrades, not tank.

Then give the ship less mining bonus to regulate the more lowslots. Wich means, more choice. Right?


They'll still put in the mining upgrades.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#93 - 2017-02-14 01:45:04 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Amojin wrote:
No, he wants a safe space. Someone has said something politically incorrect.

Last post on this thread (IB4TL, reported). Opinions are fine - differing opinions are even better.
But this whole thread is just ******* stupid.

PSA: Please stop feeding the troll. Please.

I can assure you, he is not a troll.

Just a very stubborn and religious guy, who cannot loose an argument.

I know him for quite a while and he is not easy to deal with.

But he is a very good patience teacher. Lol

And i have to admit, he has a point. Even if it is does not bother me at all, like him, that i cannot have a mining barge with a proper armor tank option.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#94 - 2017-02-14 01:47:52 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
Is there a gameplay problem with shield tanked mining ships or are you just complaining?


Just complaining.

ORE ships are not Gallente ships. This is like complaining you can't armor tank Caldari ships.

But mining ship wrecks are gallente wrecks.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#95 - 2017-02-14 01:52:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The real reason has been given.

More low slots = people will just cram them full of mining laser upgrades, not tank.

Then give the ship less mining bonus to regulate the more lowslots. Wich means, more choice. Right?


They'll still put in the mining upgrades.

He is not the only one, who fly his barge tanky. I know a guy with 20 skiffs, who prefer them at 90khp. And i do it too at weekends. 10 catas can kill a yield fitted skiff. I saw code. do that right next to me.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#96 - 2017-02-14 02:24:50 UTC
Amojin wrote:
David Therman wrote:
3. You're the first person I've seen complain about this problem of mining ships being predominately shield-tanked... which indicates that this problem is really not a problem at all.
Your 3 is really interesting. I also noted this. I looked for other posts to respond to, but I, like you, found none. Very interesting. Very fascinating how much they were willing to spend up two or more months, to just keep the peace...

Why would anyone be spending two months or more to get an adequate shield tank?

Most barges and exhumers that fit tank at all seem to go for shield extenders, adaptive invul and some damage specific resists.

It's only a few days of training into T2.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#97 - 2017-02-14 02:34:06 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Amojin wrote:
David Therman wrote:
3. You're the first person I've seen complain about this problem of mining ships being predominately shield-tanked... which indicates that this problem is really not a problem at all.
Your 3 is really interesting. I also noted this. I looked for other posts to respond to, but I, like you, found none. Very interesting. Very fascinating how much they were willing to spend up two or more months, to just keep the peace...

Why would anyone be spending two months or more to get an adequate shield tank?

Most barges and exhumers that fit tank at all seem to go for shield extenders, adaptive invul and some damage specific resists.

It's only a few days of training into T2.

He is complaining, because he has no choice for a well tanked mining barge, other then to tank it shield wise.

AND HE HATES SHIELDS!TwistedTwistedTwisted

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#98 - 2017-02-14 02:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Mark O'Helm wrote:
He is complaining, because he has no choice for a well tanked mining barge, other then to tank it shield wise.

AND HE HATES SHIELDS!TwistedTwistedTwisted

It seems as though he might not quite understand what skills affect what modules if he thinks two months or more is required to train into an adequate shield tank. Hence the question.

Not unexpected. He's a new player. If true though, some informatino might help him see it a bit differently.

Why he's complaining is obvious.
Amojin
Doomheim
#99 - 2017-02-14 03:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
He is complaining, because he has no choice for a well tanked mining barge, other then to tank it shield wise.

AND HE HATES SHIELDS!TwistedTwistedTwisted

It seems as though he might not quite understand what skills affect what modules if he thinks two months or more is required to train into an adequate shield tank. Hence the question.

Why he's complaining is obvious.


Then I over-estimated your skill line. I admit I have not trained any shield skill past 3. Getting to 5's in all the armor, was over two months.

I'm surprised to see Mark taking my side, but, thanks, Mark. You did well say I am hard to deal with. :P

Let's, however, Scipio, say it takes me only two minutes to get a top-flight shield tank.

I'm forced to do it. I'd still want an armor tank option, and I'd still extract those two minutes of skills. I don't like having them on my character sheet. More importantly, mining is the only activity where I am forced to.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#100 - 2017-02-14 03:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Amojin wrote:
Let's, however, Scipio, say it takes me only two minutes to get a top-flight shield tank.

I'm forced to do it. I'd still want an armor tank option, and I'd still extract those two minutes of skills. I don't like having them on my character sheet. More importantly, mining is the only activity where I am forced to.

I will echo what everyone else has said; your problem is not really a problem. It is a perception.


If you want to only use some "tools" and not others purely because of your own personal preference, you have to accept that you will not be able to do everything you want or perform at the same effectiveness as everyone else who chooses to not abide by your perceived notions of "how things should be."



Also... I am pretty sure there is a DEV out there reading this and laughing his ass off.
As are the ISDs.

This thread should have been locked LONG ago for a variety of reasons (ranting being chief among them).

How did you Veterans start?