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UI Readability Issues.
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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#21 - 2017-02-13 16:20:02 UTC
it doesnt really matter about what connections you have on your tv or the resolution, its to do with pixel density

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ronin Gabe
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#22 - 2017-02-13 16:32:56 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
it doesnt really matter about what connections you have on your tv or the resolution, its to do with pixel density


I'll say it again. It isn't a clarity issue. It's purely the SIZE of the letters. At any range, (and during all of this, I've placed myself at 3,4, and 5 foot distances, and that only affects peripheral view as I get closer) they are very small, and there's currently no effective way to make them bigger. They aren't blurred, or skewed, or fuzzy. They are tiny. Period. We're talking about 2 different things. Pixel density isn't going to make those small letters magically bigger.
Cade Windstalker
#23 - 2017-02-14 00:01:22 UTC
Ronin Gabe wrote:
So because it doesn't happen to you, it's an invalid argument? Also, let me ask you this. How much WORK do you suppose it took to create and provide SKINS for 330+ ship types? So, again, it's not that it isn't doable, it's because CCP doesn't prioritize it. They had a good LONG time to address this concern ( I stand by what I said in my original post, I can't believe I'm the only person (or for that matter, even in the minority) to ever raise this issue).

Is it your intent to defend CCP's lack of action on this, so that a dev doesn't have to bother with ignoring the complaint? I'm just curious. You're sitting here saying 'gee, that'd take a lot of work'. Aw, shucks. Last I checked, that's what jobs were. Work. AND, the longer they wait through the game's continuing evolution, the more problematic it's going to become when they finally decide, 'gee, maybe we should listen to our customers.'


First off, that's not what I said, I said it was understandable that CCP weren't prioritizing it. The invalid part of your argument was the bit where you claimed that you paying meant CCP has to do what you say...

Second, artist time does not equal UI/UX designer/programmer time in any way shape or form. In fact the sort of thing you're asking for here is almost entirely the work of UX designers and UI programmers, neither of whom would be part of the teams doing ship models or SKINS.

The teams doing UI and UX work would be the ones doing things like reworking the probe launcher, redoing the character screen (something that actually helps your request here), and similar reworks and updates.

Also you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying about CCP and work. It's not like if CCP doesn't do this they just slack off for a few years, it's do they work on this or one or two or ten other things instead. Dev time is all about trade-offs and spending a limited resource in the way that benefits the most users.

Also if they go through and rework the UI bit and piecemeal while taking things like this into account then we get to the end of it, we have a nice shiny UI, and CCP can go through and do something like this in a few weeks or months instead of it being a massive year long effort half of which gets wiped out over the next few years as the UI updates come out anyway.

TLDR: Please attempt to learn the basics of software development.
Ronin Gabe
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#24 - 2017-02-14 06:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronin Gabe
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Ronin Gabe wrote:
So because it doesn't happen to you, it's an invalid argument? Also, let me ask you this. How much WORK do you suppose it took to create and provide SKINS for 330+ ship types? So, again, it's not that it isn't doable, it's because CCP doesn't prioritize it. They had a good LONG time to address this concern ( I stand by what I said in my original post, I can't believe I'm the only person (or for that matter, even in the minority) to ever raise this issue).

Is it your intent to defend CCP's lack of action on this, so that a dev doesn't have to bother with ignoring the complaint? I'm just curious. You're sitting here saying 'gee, that'd take a lot of work'. Aw, shucks. Last I checked, that's what jobs were. Work. AND, the longer they wait through the game's continuing evolution, the more problematic it's going to become when they finally decide, 'gee, maybe we should listen to our customers.'


First off, that's not what I said, I said it was understandable that CCP weren't prioritizing it. The invalid part of your argument was the bit where you claimed that you paying meant CCP has to do what you say...

Second, artist time does not equal UI/UX designer/programmer time in any way shape or form. In fact the sort of thing you're asking for here is almost entirely the work of UX designers and UI programmers, neither of whom would be part of the teams doing ship models or SKINS.

The teams doing UI and UX work would be the ones doing things like reworking the probe launcher, redoing the character screen (something that actually helps your request here), and similar reworks and updates.

Also you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying about CCP and work. It's not like if CCP doesn't do this they just slack off for a few years, it's do they work on this or one or two or ten other things instead. Dev time is all about trade-offs and spending a limited resource in the way that benefits the most users.

Also if they go through and rework the UI bit and piecemeal while taking things like this into account then we get to the end of it, we have a nice shiny UI, and CCP can go through and do something like this in a few weeks or months instead of it being a massive year long effort half of which gets wiped out over the next few years as the UI updates come out anyway.

TLDR: Please attempt to learn the basics of software development.


I know enough about software coding to observe that this should not be a 20 year long issue. In fact, the problem lies in the fact that the ball was badly dropped when planning/mapping out the software development lifecycle. You can bet your last can of energy drink that if players started leaving wholesale, citing readability/eyestrain as the reason, this would get immediate, top level attention. At the end of the day, if the devs are pressed for time, well....hire some devs, and give them this issue to dedicate their time to. I'm not hearing any good reason about why this isn't done, just excuses amounting to, 'well, the devs are busy with other things'. Like creating skins that no one buys, so they're being retired. The UI is THE major functional component of this game, yet every development cycle, (every time they roll out the new content) it keeps getting put on the back burner to favor new lights and bells....strictly speaking, I don't BLAME the devs for this issue, I blame upper management. They prove, regularly, that they don't care about customer concerns. They focus their attention on keeping subs paying fees, and will put this EXPENSE to the business on hold as long as is feasible. If I were a betting man ( and, I AM a betting man), I'd say that the devs are clamoring frequently to get in there and fix some of this. Working in IT as I have for the last 25 years, I've seen this MANY times. Keep 'maintenance' off of the budget. This is why you see bloated companies like GE still using 30 year old AS400 tools like Jobscope (lmao), while other more nimble companies figured out a long time ago that an Oracle platform was the way to go.

This isn't a time issue, a difficulty issue, or an inconvenience issue. It's a money issue, pure and simple. It'll get addressed when enough players start adversely hitting CCP's bottom line. Knowing that doesn't mean that I have to like it, especially when the general reply to the concern seems to be, 'hey don't like it, go do something else with your time'...great advertising, that.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#25 - 2017-02-14 09:30:48 UTC
the ball has been badly dropped because ccp dont cater for the 1 person who uses a 55" tv from 6ft away to play a game designed for a pc, ok got it, try sitting closer, its less effort than whining on the forums about it

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Cade Windstalker
#26 - 2017-02-14 14:56:13 UTC
Ronin Gabe wrote:
I know enough about software coding to observe that this should not be a 20 year long issue. In fact, the problem lies in the fact that the ball was badly dropped when planning/mapping out the software development lifecycle. You can bet your last can of energy drink that if players started leaving wholesale, citing readability/eyestrain as the reason, this would get immediate, top level attention. At the end of the day, if the devs are pressed for time, well....hire some devs, and give them this issue to dedicate their time to. I'm not hearing any good reason about why this isn't done, just excuses amounting to, 'well, the devs are busy with other things'.

Like creating skins that no one buys, so they're being retired. The UI is THE major functional component of this game, yet every development cycle, (every time they roll out the new content) it keeps getting put on the back burner to favor new lights and bells....strictly speaking, I don't BLAME the devs for this issue, I blame upper management. They prove, regularly, that they don't care about customer concerns. They focus their attention on keeping subs paying fees, and will put this EXPENSE to the business on hold as long as is feasible.

If I were a betting man ( and, I AM a betting man), I'd say that the devs are clamoring frequently to get in there and fix some of this. Working in IT as I have for the last 25 years, I've seen this MANY times. Keep 'maintenance' off of the budget. This is why you see bloated companies like GE still using 30 year old AS400 tools like Jobscope (lmao), while other more nimble companies figured out a long time ago that an Oracle platform was the way to go.

This isn't a time issue, a difficulty issue, or an inconvenience issue. It's a money issue, pure and simple. It'll get addressed when enough players start adversely hitting CCP's bottom line. Knowing that doesn't mean that I have to like it, especially when the general reply to the concern seems to be, 'hey don't like it, go do something else with your time'...great advertising, that.



First off, Eve Online started as about two dozen people working out of a basement. I doubt anyone working on it figured CCP would still be around in 20 years, let alone that their code would still be running.

Now, you can complain about decisions made back then to get the game out the door (though without those decisions Eve might not have ever gotten out the door...) but we all still have to live with them.

Side note here, the idea that no one buys Skins is ridiculous. They're not being retired because no one buys them, they're being retired to constrict the options available on the market, create demand for skins that may not be currently available through the NEX store which incentivizes players to buy them for resale, and push other new skins that players might not have yet.

As for the idea that the devs would do something if there were lots of players complaining, sure they would, but that's because that's just good customer service, if your players are demanding something and you can do it then you do, but that's not happening.

As for that bet, I'd take the opposite bet, speaking as someone who actually works in software and knows quite a bit about game development besides. For the most part devs have a ton of freedom in deciding what features they work on and what gets priority. It's not just upper management handing down commandments from on high, and the things the players get to hear from the devs at various meetups and gatherings support this. If something isn't getting worked on it's because it's not a priority.

That doesn't mean the devs don't want to do it, it means they don't have time right now because other things are taking that time. Also doesn't hurt that devs generally like working on shiny new things rather than going back and fixing something that's already done and working.

You can view this all as excuses or whatever if you like, but that doesn't change reality and it certainly won't get your suggestion implemented any faster.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#27 - 2017-02-14 15:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Ronin Gabe wrote:
And yet, I don't seem to have any vision or headache issues when I'm outside of the game, using the same monitor for a host of other things, including work. As usual, blame the player, not CCP.

Touchy today, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what?
I never blamed you or anyone else for anything, best you train reading comprehension to level 5, get some glasses to aide your obviously faulty vision and go read my first post again.

After agreeing that CCP needs to make changes to the UI I simply offered a suggestion on something you or anyone else can do now, something that may help your EvE vision problems and you may find as I did that they will help you in all computer related activities. In many cases they may solve problems you are not even aware that you have and they will help to prevent damage to your eyes that may cause more serious problems in the future. And for this simple suggestion what do I get? you accuse me of stating the problems are with the players. go figure I guess the old adage that no good deed will go unpunished allies to EvE and these forums as well.
Victoria Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-04-28 18:47:37 UTC
This is a major issue for me. Started playing again yesterday (on/off since beta), they must realise this is an issue, as they made the tutorial instructions in a completely different font and colour and they are quite readable, whilst to me the character sheet is nearly a blur.

I wear glasses with a focal length set to 8ft, specifically for playing on my TV. I have no problems with any other game.

Unfortunately I won't be continuing my re-entry to the Eve Universe because of this problem.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2017-04-28 19:34:22 UTC
This whole thread is essentially "My special snowflake gaming setup is supported but not made perfect by CCP" tears. It's like the 4k screen owner asking for better scaling not realizing they are about 2% of the market.
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