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Smart Bombs
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Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#1 - 2017-02-10 22:11:08 UTC
If smart bombs exploded at the end of their activation cycle instead of the beginning, would that exponentially reduce the market for implants ?
REDCON
House 0f Shadows
#2 - 2017-02-11 01:21:05 UTC
wat O.o?
Kazual Jayde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-11 05:02:59 UTC
Not exponentially, no.

There are still insta-lock high alpha strikers to consider.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#4 - 2017-02-14 13:03:25 UTC
So you think that would prevent pods getting blapped by smart bombs or would it make no difference ?
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-02-14 13:25:31 UTC
not really, people adapt and would just change the timing of when to activate

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#6 - 2017-02-14 13:40:09 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
not really, people adapt and would just change the timing of when to activate


That's what I thought might be the case, it would just add a level of difficulty to doing it but not make it impossible
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-02-14 14:17:19 UTC
Agent 5B wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
not really, people adapt and would just change the timing of when to activate


That's what I thought might be the case, it would just add a level of difficulty to doing it but not make it impossible


it wouldnt add any more difficulty, its pretty much the same routine just activating when a ship appears at a different position on your tactical overlay

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#8 - 2017-02-14 15:17:38 UTC
You think 10 seconds is on grid ?
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#9 - 2017-02-16 18:15:59 UTC
There are actually two things you need to look at here if we are wanting to deep dive and over analyse this.

1. PVP - In theory, the delay of the smartbomb would allow more pods to get out as there would be fewer pods dying. Yes the attacker could activate it early and try to time it, but it would be harder (someone else can argue by how much) and therefore some more pods would get away. This in a vacuum would cause prices to decrease as fewer were being destroyed. However, if they are easier to save, people may be more willing to use them and thus counter the decrease with more demand.

2. PVE - This is very much a theory and is one of those very minor cases. PVE Smartbomb ratting allows for sites that spawn faction drops (and implants) to be run faster. By delaying a smartbomb damage at the beggining of the first wave, it could allow for an NPC to get out of range and thus slow the site down allowing for few sites to be run. A player could counter this again by activating the bombs before the wave spawns, and this would only really apply to the first wave of a site as after that, the cycle time between damage is the same. So if you allow this to slow down 1 site every 4-5 hours (because this would not be a huge impact) by 10-30 seconds, and then calculate that over the whole game for a few days, you might see 1 or 2 less implants dropped per day.

Number 2 was more of a thought experement for me, and would probably not be noticable.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#10 - 2017-02-16 23:45:02 UTC
So this PVP concept of smart bombs not allowing pods to get out, I have not experienced but I will take your word for it that it exists. That being so how many pods are actually killed by the people who killed the ship it came from compared to how many are just killed by someone waiting on a gate for a random pod ?
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-02-17 06:37:55 UTC
I didnt think about the 10sec cycle time, yeah it would make it impossible in most situations

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2017-02-17 09:43:55 UTC
There are too many issues in EVE that need adressing before we start screwing around with smartbomb mechanics. Can meet worms, meet bag, meet snakes...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#13 - 2017-02-17 10:44:40 UTC
I heard a rumor that you were never meant to be able to engage a ship in warp to a gate as it was meant to be invulnerable due to warp and then due to gate activation and ships vulnerability to smart bombs was unintentional by the programmers.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-02-17 10:52:38 UTC
Agent 5B wrote:
I heard a rumor that you were never meant to be able to engage a ship in warp to a gate as it was meant to be invulnerable due to warp and then due to gate activation and ships vulnerability to smart bombs was unintentional by the programmers.


just sweep that under the rug, nobody needs to know that

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#15 - 2017-02-17 11:11:21 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Agent 5B wrote:
I heard a rumor that you were never meant to be able to engage a ship in warp to a gate as it was meant to be invulnerable due to warp and then due to gate activation and ships vulnerability to smart bombs was unintentional by the programmers.


just sweep that under the rug, nobody needs to know that



You mean like don't go posting about it in the public forums ?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#16 - 2017-02-17 12:43:29 UTC
I'm not sure what all the hub bub about pods is for. Some simple pod facts:

1. They are free
2. If you get a new one, you get a free ride to the station of your choice
3. If you get smart bomb podded it's because:
a. You chose a poor route
b. You chose to not fly in a ship (another poor choice)
c. You lost your ship because of poor choices and doubled down by losing your pod

HS podding by smart bomb is pretty rare. I think the last person to try to make a career out of it was mooncat slayer and that dude lost a lot of ravens getting from the 4-4 undock to the perimeter gate. He could have done better with a few easy adjustments to his operation, but that's for another thread. That being said, this thread doesn't seem to be about HS smartbombing, but Ls/null/wh smartbombing.

Understanding disclaimers: yeah at one point in your eve career there was a clearly worded "There be dragons beyond this gate" notification. If you read it you don't have a lot of room to get upset about being podded at some point in your travels.

Understanding simple precautions: So if you have a bm at a suitable perch above, below or even behind and a bit off to the side (best IMHO) of a gate that you can warp to first - most smartbombing issues go away. The smart bomber positions himself between the gate he is camping and the likely incoming path of his victims. Based on smart bomb limits (specifically minimum distance from the gate to activate) - a solo smart bomber can only cover the most likely approach. Warping to a suitable bm makes bypassing the solo smart bomber quite easy.

A few words on effort: Eve is a complex and difficult game. Excelling at candy crush and other such basic games in no way guarantees any modicum of success in Eve. What keeps this game going is the interplay between one pilot's intellect and another's. In this case the smart bomber puts in the time and effort to pick (we'll just use LS as an example) a suitable gate. He's put in the effort to somehow deal with the locals (he is one on knows someone....) so that they don't continually pee down his air hose. So preplanning and effort is what makes the smart bomber successful. Pretty straight forward - right? The counter effort by the player desiring to not be podded is at some point pre scouting the route being taken, setting up the smart bomb avoiding bm (we'll call them tactical BM) and then using them. Play and counter play. Both require somewhat differing skills, but in the end the player putting in the appropriate effort comes out on top.

A few words on smart bombing victims: There really are no victims in a podding by smart bombing on a gate. If you can by no means come to terms with losing your free ship (pod) then avoid going through gates that have "there be dragons" warnings on them. You need to choose 'I value my pod' over what ever is on the other side. If you find yourself on the dragons side of a get in just your pod.... it was by some set of choices. You need to accept the consequences. A few examples:
1. I should be able to fly anywhere in Eve in my pod and no one should be able to blow it up - this just isn't a true thing.
2. Auto pilot took me to LS and I didn't notice AND I previously checked the don't show this again box for the 'there be dragons' warning put in the game to protect me.
3. I was doing stuff in LS/null/wh and ended up in my pod, but I didn't mean to - there be dragons, it's part of playing there
4. It's too expensive to lose my pod based on all the implants I NEED to play the game properly - you're just looking at the game all wrong, until CCP puts up a gate that actually requires some implant to actuate it - you don't NEED implants, you chose to install them.

This is the longest possible way I could come up with to say - smart bombs are working correctly and avoiding them just takes some pre planning and simple (not complex) effort.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#17 - 2017-02-18 08:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent 5B
You could look at it like that

Then again

You could consider it to be a rather tedious and finite bunch of players whose game evolution has resulted in pressing F1 for 99% of the time no tactical purpose and dropping no loot and that both them and other would benefit greatly from there being a greater amount of skill/luck required to achieve it.

Addition:
In terms of pod bombers on gates, I have no reservations about my suggestion, my only concern is if it would affect other ways in which smart bombs are used.
The reduced danger of implants being destroyed in some pointless explosion might make people use them more therefore pod kills from other methods would become better.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#18 - 2017-02-22 14:19:47 UTC
Agent 5B wrote:
You could look at it like that

Then again

You could consider it to be a rather tedious and finite bunch of players whose game evolution has resulted in pressing F1 for 99% of the time no tactical purpose and dropping no loot and that both them and other would benefit greatly from there being a greater amount of skill/luck required to achieve it.

Addition:
In terms of pod bombers on gates, I have no reservations about my suggestion, my only concern is if it would affect other ways in which smart bombs are used.
The reduced danger of implants being destroyed in some pointless explosion might make people use them more therefore pod kills from other methods would become better.




Stop being lazy and make some tactical bm on your route. If it's a pvp roam through dangerous space - assume you'll lose your pod, that way if you don't - you'll be extra happy instead of all this Negative Nancy hoo haw you are on about.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#19 - 2017-02-22 18:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent 5B
Serendipity Lost wrote:




Stop being lazy and make some tactical bm on your route. If it's a pvp roam through dangerous space - assume you'll lose your pod, that way if you don't - you'll be extra happy instead of all this Negative Nancy hoo haw you are on about.


It's a bit like speed humps in some places/era they were referred to as sleeping policemen. Smart bombers are like someone really did just lie in the road all day to slow traffic down.


That reminds me is there a way to get more than 500 corporation bookmarks, 500 is only really enough for perches on every gate in one war zone ?
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-02-23 13:05:07 UTC
smartbombing mallers in niarja/uttindar are something you must not have seen then :)
pop goes the shuttle/leopard/wookie ship.
What might make more sense and more of a headache for the developers is to make smartbomb more like a thing that activates and does damage every second for the full cycle. (so 10 hits of 30 instead of 1 hit of 300 for a random smartbomb.)
Because you see the flash but why does it only do an initial damage and not for the duration of the flash?
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