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starting pvp?
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Annabelle Le
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#1 - 2017-01-01 22:15:36 UTC
I'm pretty new at this but I would like to get started in PvP. The question is where to start and what to fly.

I'm Amaar but frigate skills are all at three or four (or will be soon) so that's a start. As an Amaar pilot my energy weapons are higher than blasters and projectile but I'll soon be tech II on both. Missile skills are basically nonexistent at the moment.

Fitting ships is another big question: how much should I bling them out to start with? On one hand I know that I will lose a lot of ships (was going to say to start with but I will like lose for a while) so making them expensive is a bad thing, but on the other hand the brighter the bling may help beginners like myself.

Another thing though it may not be that big a deal is security rating. If I go to a low sec FW system don't I take a security hit every time I start combat.

I watched plenty of videos in which the person making the guides make everything look really easy. I know there is much more to it than they show you and I want to learn just need a little advice on where and how to start.
Katja Somni
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2017-01-02 00:42:34 UTC
Frigates are the standard recommendation, and that isn't bad advice. Frigate combat can be very quick, though, to the point that it isn't necessarily a bad idea to hop in a few relatively cheap cruisers instead just so you get the experience of combat for a bit longer. Depending on how much ISK you have, losing a few cruisers still isn't a catastrophe. If you are really set on the frigate idea, scram-kiting Tormentors or Executioners aren't bad.

How much you bling your frigates comes down, again, to your ISK situation to a great degree. If you have 20 billion to **** away on this, who cares if you lose a few 30 mil frigates. Really, though, unless you know specifically what the bling is helping you achieve (and typically only in a pirate frigate even so), I wouldn't go beyond T2, really.

If you are not in a militia, shooting anything in lowsec will give your sec status a hit. However, you have to go below -2 to start being denied access to 1.0 highsec, and below -5.0 to be denied 0.5 highsec. You can then fix this either via clone tags, or by doing stuff that raises your sec status occasionally, such as missioning. If you are in the militia, shooting the opposed militia (or its opposed ally) will not give you sec status hits, and thus you won't have to worry.

If you really have no idea how to start, fitting up 5 frigates and heading into novice FW plexes to most likely die isn't a terrible idea. Just be conscious of trying to acclimate to what you're doing. Try to note what you screwed up in one death and fix it for next time. Learn to use D-scan if you aren't and develop an idea of what sort of fit other ships often are. If you're in a brawling fit, jumping into a kite ship that is set up in a plex is suicide.

Just keep in mind that most people are trying to win, not fight fair. There's value to just getting in fights, even if you can't win them, when you're starting out. But only for a fight or three. Past that, you're just throwing ships away for no reason, to people who hope you don't know better.

I don't have a Tormentor fit since I don't fly them, but if you were looking for an Amarr frigate fit, here's an example of a Scram-kite Executioner that I got from somewhere. It's not too difficult to fly. You keep at range about 7 km on people and blap away. If a kiter comes in, you can either leave, or reload Infrared and hope to scare them off with ~100 DPS.

[Executioner, AB Scram-Kite Beams]
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Gleam S x3
Imperial Navy Multifrequency S x3
Imperial Navy Infrared S x3
Nanite Repair Paste x50

Just keep in mind that frigate fights are fast. You'll almost always want to overheat nearly everything. Learning when, how much and how long you overheat is also something you'll pick up with practice.

I hope this was helpful to some small degree. Good luck.
Rovain Sess
Wu Fanged
#3 - 2017-01-02 01:33:14 UTC
So many questions, so little time... glad you've decided to learn the real meat and gravy of Eve. Just a couple points...

A) Novices are nice, but Faction frig can access them. They can eat t1 frigs, especially when your lower skilled.

B) Pvp is about fits, but there are alot of factors you need to consider. Engagement profile is a biggie. Torms are great, but definately has counters. If you know your counters you can avoid alot of heartburn. This is info gained thru experience, and or mentorship.

C) Batman had Robin, you sir need to find an experienced wingman. Knowledge is power, and Eve is a social arena - so don't be afraid to join a supportive corp. You don't have to be single or married in Eve forever, but starting out - having a bud is a real advantage if you can find a solid.

D) Commit to the process and remember to try, fail, and try again. Never hang your head low, and always have another ship ready to go. Eve is great and can be alot of fun, don't listen to the nay sayers.

Good luck,

Rov
Kethen T'val
Dontopiax Mining Inc.
#4 - 2017-01-02 09:28:37 UTC
Katja Somni wrote:
Frigates are the standard recommendation, and that isn't bad advice. Frigate combat can be very quick, though, to the point that it isn't necessarily a bad idea to hop in a few relatively cheap cruisers instead just so you get the experience of combat for a bit longer. Depending on how much ISK you have, losing a few cruisers still isn't a catastrophe. If you are really set on the frigate idea, scram-kiting Tormentors or Executioners aren't bad.

How much you bling your frigates comes down, again, to your ISK situation to a great degree. If you have 20 billion to **** away on this, who cares if you lose a few 30 mil frigates. Really, though, unless you know specifically what the bling is helping you achieve (and typically only in a pirate frigate even so), I wouldn't go beyond T2, really.

If you are not in a militia, shooting anything in lowsec will give your sec status a hit. However, you have to go below -2 to start being denied access to 1.0 highsec, and below -5.0 to be denied 0.5 highsec. You can then fix this either via clone tags, or by doing stuff that raises your sec status occasionally, such as missioning. If you are in the militia, shooting the opposed militia (or its opposed ally) will not give you sec status hits, and thus you won't have to worry.

If you really have no idea how to start, fitting up 5 frigates and heading into novice FW plexes to most likely die isn't a terrible idea. Just be conscious of trying to acclimate to what you're doing. Try to note what you screwed up in one death and fix it for next time. Learn to use D-scan if you aren't and develop an idea of what sort of fit other ships often are. If you're in a brawling fit, jumping into a kite ship that is set up in a plex is suicide.

Just keep in mind that most people are trying to win, not fight fair. There's value to just getting in fights, even if you can't win them, when you're starting out. But only for a fight or three. Past that, you're just throwing ships away for no reason, to people who hope you don't know better.

I don't have a Tormentor fit since I don't fly them, but if you were looking for an Amarr frigate fit, here's an example of a Scram-kite Executioner that I got from somewhere. It's not too difficult to fly. You keep at range about 7 km on people and blap away. If a kiter comes in, you can either leave, or reload Infrared and hope to scare them off with ~100 DPS.

[Executioner, AB Scram-Kite Beams]
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Gleam S x3
Imperial Navy Multifrequency S x3
Imperial Navy Infrared S x3
Nanite Repair Paste x50

Just keep in mind that frigate fights are fast. You'll almost always want to overheat nearly everything. Learning when, how much and how long you overheat is also something you'll pick up with practice.

I hope this was helpful to some small degree. Good luck.



This needs a healthy amount of micromanaging AND it has the ability to take on or fend of most things, if managed corerctly. Its perfect for a new pvp pilot. BUT I would change a few things.


Actual tank is not prio, range is.

First: You really need the T2 scram on a scram kiter. To make this work you need to downgrade the DC2 to IFFA.

Second: Switch rep rig for a poly to better deal with good pilots or other fast frigs.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2017-01-03 02:00:33 UTC
Pick a frigate, buy 10 of them, cheap as possible with t2 guns / faction or t2 ammo. Start fighting stuff, you'll quickly learn what beats what etc.

Almost every t1 frigate is viable depending on the target and fit.
Annabelle Le
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#6 - 2017-01-03 16:08:24 UTC
Thanks to everyone for the advice
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#7 - 2017-01-03 23:05:01 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Pick a frigate, buy 10 of them, cheap as possible with t2 guns / faction or t2 ammo. Start fighting stuff, you'll quickly learn what beats what etc.

Almost every t1 frigate is viable depending on the target and fit.


Yep, good advice here.

A good trick is to fit something else besides a point. You'll be amazed how often they don't realize they were never pointed and could have flown away at any time. Works best with the smaller ships where the fights are quick and intense and situational awareness is tough on the opponent.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Annabelle Le
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#8 - 2017-01-07 17:05:54 UTC
This is going to sound pretty stupid, but where is the best place to go? I have my ships and modules sitting in a station in the Black Rise. Lots of FW systems to choose from but they appear to be waffle house as that waffle corp has 6 or 7 pilots working together there and most ships in the systems are destroyers and up. Lots of tech II stuff.

I'm not worried about losing, that's why I have 20 ships waiting to get toasted, but you don't learn much from two seconds that you last against multiple pilots in much better ships. I did manage to get away from a couple of Rapiers last night so I guess I did learn to run.

This is not a complaint I'm asking for advice.
Kethen T'val
Dontopiax Mining Inc.
#9 - 2017-01-07 17:24:33 UTC
Annabelle Le wrote:
This is going to sound pretty stupid, but where is the best place to go? I have my ships and modules sitting in a station in the Black Rise. Lots of FW systems to choose from but they appear to be waffle house as that waffle corp has 6 or 7 pilots working together there and most ships in the systems are destroyers and up. Lots of tech II stuff.

I'm not worried about losing, that's why I have 20 ships waiting to get toasted, but you don't learn much from two seconds that you last against multiple pilots in much better ships. I did manage to get away from a couple of Rapiers last night so I guess I did learn to run.

This is not a complaint I'm asking for advice.



RvB
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#10 - 2017-01-07 22:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykker Bow
Annabelle Le wrote:
This is going to sound pretty stupid, but where is the best place to go? I have my ships and modules sitting in a station in the Black Rise. Lots of FW systems to choose from but they appear to be waffle house as that waffle corp has 6 or 7 pilots working together there and most ships in the systems are destroyers and up. Lots of tech II stuff.

I'm not worried about losing, that's why I have 20 ships waiting to get toasted, but you don't learn much from two seconds that you last against multiple pilots in much better ships. I did manage to get away from a couple of Rapiers last night so I guess I did learn to run.

This is not a complaint I'm asking for advice.


Dotlan - Black Rise Region map
Head deeper into Black Rise. Fly the Nisuwa > hikkoken > aivonen > eha > kehjari route. You'll find action. Be careful of system pipes (hikk to pyne) and gate camp systems (kinakka). Use the system plex's to your advantage. You can then expand out into Placid, Essence and The Citadel regions from Black Rise.

By flying frigs you can ignore non insta locking fleets. It's very easy to bypass and fly around fleets in frigs. You get caught sometimes but for the most part getting around in low sec in a frig is easy.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Annabelle Le
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#11 - 2017-01-08 04:37:19 UTC
Again thank you for the help and advice.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#12 - 2017-01-08 05:55:57 UTC
Annabelle Le wrote:
This is going to sound pretty stupid, but where is the best place to go? I have my ships and modules sitting in a station in the Black Rise. Lots of FW systems to choose from but they appear to be waffle house as that waffle corp has 6 or 7 pilots working together there and most ships in the systems are destroyers and up. Lots of tech II stuff.

I'm not worried about losing, that's why I have 20 ships waiting to get toasted, but you don't learn much from two seconds that you last against multiple pilots in much better ships. I did manage to get away from a couple of Rapiers last night so I guess I did learn to run.

This is not a complaint I'm asking for advice.


I'm pretty new as well. But I would say that part of experience is knowing what and when to engage. As well as bringing the right tools to the party. If they are highly skilled characters operating tech II destroyers and up then your MO will be pretty simple. Your chances of winning a fight are 0% and you should seek to avoid all PvP engagements.

Sadly this is one of the most frustrating things about this game. Unless you have paid for all those years of subscription to put skill points on your character - and spent the ISK to get a really good ship. Then not only are you able to be outplayed, but, you are outgunned in every way.

Knowing how to survive in that environment means being able to identify, detect, and avoid threats. It means watching the grid, and keeping an eye on D-scan at all times. As well as knowing how to use your scanner to avoid battles. Once you know how to locate, and avoid things then you will know a bit more about how to operate. Once you gain more knowledge of what you can and cannot engage, then instead to trying to avoid you will actually be seeking to kill.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#13 - 2017-01-08 15:35:46 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:


I'm pretty new as well. But I would say that part of experience is knowing what and when to engage. As well as bringing the right tools to the party. If they are highly skilled characters operating tech II destroyers and up then your MO will be pretty simple. Your chances of winning a fight are 0% and you should seek to avoid all PvP engagements.

Sadly this is one of the most frustrating things about this game. Unless you have paid for all those years of subscription to put skill points on your character - and spent the ISK to get a really good ship. Then not only are you able to be outplayed, but, you are outgunned in every way.

Knowing how to survive in that environment means being able to identify, detect, and avoid threats. It means watching the grid, and keeping an eye on D-scan at all times. As well as knowing how to use your scanner to avoid battles. Once you know how to locate, and avoid things then you will know a bit more about how to operate. Once you gain more knowledge of what you can and cannot engage, then instead to trying to avoid you will actually be seeking to kill.


Pvp, both fleets and solo, is definitely knowing what, when and where to engage. Tactical advantage plays a huge part. It makes it possible for T1 frigs to beat T2 frigs or destroyers or T2/faction frigs to pick away at fleets. Kiting, sniping, speed tanking, etc can turn a decisive tactical advantage into an easy killmail.

Knowing how to fly your ship in eve is much better that being able to undock a ship.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#14 - 2017-01-10 16:51:42 UTC
Join our corp, PVP every night. I learn you good
Annabelle Le
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#15 - 2017-01-16 19:26:13 UTC
I've been trying FW a little and this morning I got a Low standing warning! My standing with the Caldari State is -0.0127. So what's the best way to get that back to 0 so I don't get kicked out of the militia lol?
Maximillian Bonaparte
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#16 - 2017-02-09 19:14:05 UTC
Well unfortunately this is one of the drawbacks of being in FW, your standings towards other factions will be skewed; you'd have to quit the militia and find some missions to run for them to fix it.

Personally I prefer to be a full on pirate and to hell with highsec, engage everything! Except my friends. :)
I just send my alt or get a friend to run to highsec for me.

Interstellar Booty Hunters - Pirate Small Gang PvP Forever!
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#17 - 2017-02-10 01:10:16 UTC
It's a misconception that FW tanks your standings with other empires. You get a very minor hit to your standings with other empires when you rank up in FW. You can get a major hit to your standings if you run FW missions and blow up enemy empire NPC ships.

BUT! If all you do is PVP when you join FW, and kill the NPC ships inside the plexes -you'll be fine when it comes to standings.

Now to answer your question, I agree that frigate based PVP is very fast and as a newbro to pvp, it can be over so quickly that you don't get a lot of time to learn from it. You can try recording your PVP sessions or just buy a huge stockpile of frigates and pre-fit them in mass amounts to go pvp like crazy. Eventually, you'll get the hang of it.

Alternatively, you can fly cruiser sized ships. If you stick to T1 fittings and always insure your ship, it is actually a very cost effective way to PVP. Cruisers also have a lot more HP than frigates, and that can give you some extra time, if needed, to learn what you're doing well, or what you can improve upon.