CSM Campaigns

Anyone who has questions, fire away.

Dear Jonn,

It would be nice if you'd inform the public of your attempts to remove Keepstars from wormhole space, while trying to keep it under wraps because you're afraid the groups who have them will try to come after you. I mean, aside of your entire campaign, it's not befitting a CSM member that we should vote for to push an agenda that is both hidden and aimed at crippling large organisations like HK/LZHX/InnerHell.

I am well aware that other CSMs do the same, but that doesn't excuse you to do it as well.

Let me be ahead of Jonn then and post this:

http://imgur.com/a/UHwdp

That's the conversation it stems from :)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/118274694
skip to 28 mins in Jonn

Its definitely an idea that i've had thrown around with a lot of lower level wormhole corps and the feeling is almost unanimous. It takes groups like Hard Knocks, Lazerhawks and Inner Hell and moves them from incredibly difficult to evict, to near impossible to evict.

I feel like this isn't a balance thing we need, as Keepstars are designed to fight super capital fleets, and there's no counterplay in wormhole space.

Explaining it this way.

Group A forms a coalition to evict group B. Group B is an established, capable WH group, with 300 active characters, and approximately 100 capital ships in their home hole ( for arguements sake, lets say 50 dreads, 30 faxes, and 20 carriers).

In order to be able to come, fight, and have a chance of winning, the attacking force should at least have parity with the defending force (we're not taking things like player skill and such into consideration, as this is already a complicated enough example). So that means Group A needs 100 capitals + a sub capital fleet to match B's capital assets alone. Given that a Keepstar's doomsdays can kill multiple capitals or effectively kill multiple caps quite quickly, we also need to compensate for that. We'll say we need 50 more capitals to have a reasonable shot of being successful.

Ok, so now that we've determined that we need 150 capitals to consider pulling this off, we'll need a subcap fleet for support. Which will say 300 should be sufficient (arbitrary number, but whatever).

So with 150 capitals, that means we would need to be able to jump through 50 capital capable wormhole connections. Given that group B is much more likely based out a c5 (as c6 space is dead), we'll assume the number of wormholes there to be 500 (there's more than that, but rough math here).

So given an even probably of rolling into it (again, not completely true, but good enough for our example), that means group A would have to roll something in the order of 25000 wormholes to get the capital fleet in. Lets say group A has 24/7 activity, and can roll a wormhole NONSTOP in... 8 minutes (generally speaking, if you're ragerolling, it can be done in about 3 minutes, but we'll give some leeway for things like rolling fatigue).

How long would it take to get a force into that wormhole? about 140 days. That's 1/3rd of a year committed to this. There is no group in eve that can handle this kind of slog, or would consider even doing it.

Now that doesn't even take into account the groups that are large in C4 space. What if they managed to anchor a keepstar? With 0 capital assets able to get in... you're looking at a TiDi fest to end all TiDi fests in WH space, which is already notoriously light on server resources.

How would I deal with removing keepstars? I don't know. I'm not going to announce something until I have a plan to deal with it. It's true that I feel that it is an unbalanced and unfair mechanic (in my opinion almost as bad as a 1-sided infini-gun from back in the day), and I won't lie about that.

How would we compensate the people who already have Keepstars up? Again, I don't know.

Would fortizars be sufficient as the best anchorable structure in J-space? I don't know. I feel like there could be a fortizar+ that's only anchorable in WH space that has some kind of toned down keepstar doomsday, and I think that would be much more fair.

So why would i suggest something that I don't know the answer for? It's true that I don't like Keepstars in WH space, but I've held that opinion since day 1, because I feel it's a very 1-sided advantage for the defender, and essentially creates such a huge boon for the defensive side, that it becomes near impossible for an attacker to win. And that's with 1 keepstar. A group such as HK which has 2 on the SAME GRID, how do you deal with that?

So I'm open to suggestions about what to do. But I don't know an appropriate path yet, so I didn't want to add it to my campaign.

By your own math the majority of the eviction difficulty isn't the Keepstar -- it's the corporation behind it. Most people would have a difficult time evicting Hk/Lzhx/Inner Hell before Keepstars, now they still have a difficult time.

You don't rageroll C5s to seed that many dreads into someone. Put a scanner in their home and seed them through their own chain while they're asleep.

Since C4 Keepstars are so unkillable if you anchor one in your C4 before voting opens (March 6th) I'll vote for you first on 16 accounts and post proof: https://i.imgur.com/w07RpWg.png

I'm not arguing that the majority of the difficulty of an eviction is what's existing, I'm arguing that the keepstar pushes it from incredibly difficult to near impossible. Groups such as Lazerhawks, HK, and Inner Hell are already very well established groups, I'm not arguing for an easy way of evicting them, I'm arguing for not making it essentially impossible.

Regarding anchoring a keepstar, even if I had the isk, which I clearly don't, I wouldn't.

6 Vinatieri: I respect that CSM is a feedback group, but feedback should go both ways, there's probably been plenty of ideas that CCP has implemented based off of or inspired by player ideas. I bring ideas to the table. I want to listen to ideas, and improve upon them.

So now that you're being evicted are you going to MJD out of your csm campaign?

Removed an off-topic post.

with any luck, i'm going to do 2, i'm thinking an EUtz one sometime around 1800-1900 on wednesday, and a UStz one around 0100 on saturday.

But because of my propensity to bring out salt, i'm going to ask the reddit mods to be present and strictly moderating any offtopic threads.