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Question about K152
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Mork Borlog
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-02-09 09:07:41 UTC
Hi Eve Fans!

Is it true that a K162 output is always visible, even if you have not jumped through the other side?

My knowledge tells me that a K162 does not appear until you have jumped through. But my CEO says that there should have been a patch where this was changed.

Is that true?
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#2 - 2017-02-09 11:13:13 UTC
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#3 - 2017-02-09 14:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Short answer:


  • K162s ALWAYS appear when you jump through a wormhole
  • K162s will USUALLY appear if you've initiated warp to the entrance (but haven't jumped through) when the wormhole has 15 hours of life left
  • K162s NEVER appear (or are even generated) if you don't initiate warp to the wormhole


In practice, this means that if you warp to a wormhole signature to check it out, a K162 will eventually appear on the other side within a few hours of the wormhole having 15 hours of life left. So, if it's a 24 hour wormhole, the K162 will usually appear about 9 hours later whether you jump through or not. But if nobody ever initiates warp to it, no K162 ever even gets generated. So if you're trying to close your connections, don't warp to your known statics and no K162 will ever appear on the other side.
Mork Borlog
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-02-09 17:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mork Borlog
Zarek Kree wrote:
Short answer:


  • K162s ALWAYS appear when you jump through a wormhole
  • K162s will USUALLY appear if you've initiated warp to the entrance (but haven't jumped through) when the wormhole has 15 hours of life left
  • K162s NEVER appear (or are even generated) if you don't initiate warp to the wormhole


In practice, this means that if you warp to a wormhole signature to check it out, a K162 will eventually appear on the other side within a few hours of the wormhole having 15 hours of life left. So, if it's a 24 hour wormhole, the K162 will usually appear about 9 hours later whether you jump through or not. But if nobody ever initiates warp to it, no K162 ever even gets generated. So if you're trying to close your connections, don't warp to your known statics and no K162 will ever appear on the other side.



Can a developer confirm this? Is very important for me to know!
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#5 - 2017-02-09 18:14:15 UTC
Mork Borlog wrote:
Can a developer confirm this? Is very important for me to know!


If you read the two links posted by Duo Roman above you'll see that CCP Fozzie was the original source for this information.
Mork Borlog
Doomheim
#6 - 2017-02-09 18:57:52 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Mork Borlog wrote:
Can a developer confirm this? Is very important for me to know!


If you read the two links posted by Duo Roman above you'll see that CCP Fozzie was the original source for this information.


Excuse me, but the contributions from 2014. And it has changed a lot by Thera and Rubicon!
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#7 - 2017-02-09 19:34:30 UTC
Mork Borlog wrote:
Excuse me, but the contributions from 2014. And it has changed a lot by Thera and Rubicon!


The developers have always been pretty good about noting changes to basic gameplay mechanics. No updates have come out mentioning changes to wormhole generation since that note in 2014. I also haven't read about or experienced any situations that suggest these mechanics are no longer applicable.

You're welcome to wait for a developer to come along and say "no change to previous update" but I wouldn't hold my breath since I think that would be a first. They don't typically publish a list of things that HAVEN'T changed.

Cheers.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-02-09 22:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
K162 is a now defunct WH alliance which served as the alliance shell for the long standing wormhole power corp Aperture Harmonics (AHARM).

AHARM dates back the the very beginnings of wspace, forming in March 2009 and while starting in a C3, they quickly moved to 'Nova', J105934, a class 6 Magnetar system with a class 6 static, which would become their home for the majority of their existence.

While starting out like most other corps at the time, they quickly established themselves are a real force and started bumping heads with the then undisputed power in wspace; CCRES.
Eventually AHARM managed to evict CCRES from their home system and cemented themselves as top dogs in their place.
They remained at the very top of the wormhole power structure all the way till their merger with No Holes Barred where the K162 alliance ticker was dropped for the NOHO flag under which they flew successfully up till their eventual disbanding.

Would you like to know more? [CLICK HERE]

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Jonn Duune
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#9 - 2017-02-10 19:37:26 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Short answer:


  • K162s ALWAYS appear when you jump through a wormhole
  • K162s will USUALLY appear if you've initiated warp to the entrance (but haven't jumped through) when the wormhole has 15 hours of life left
  • K162s NEVER appear (or are even generated) if you don't initiate warp to the wormhole



This is not entirely true anymore, it's been observed that:

1) A k162 will always spawn when a wormhole (from the non k162 side) is jumped, unless it has not been spawned within 4 hours, at which point it will randomly spawn the other side

2) Warping to a non-k162 of an unspawned wormhole will no longer pop the other side

3) Read point 1, k162s are on timers now and will activate after around 4 hours of being a live signature, regardless of being popped or not.

My name is Jonn Duune, and I wholeheartedly support the message posted above.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#10 - 2017-02-10 21:43:59 UTC
Jonn Duune wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Short answer:


  • K162s ALWAYS appear when you jump through a wormhole
  • K162s will USUALLY appear if you've initiated warp to the entrance (but haven't jumped through) when the wormhole has 15 hours of life left
  • K162s NEVER appear (or are even generated) if you don't initiate warp to the wormhole



This is not entirely true anymore, it's been observed that:

1) A k162 will always spawn when a wormhole (from the non k162 side) is jumped, unless it has not been spawned within 4 hours, at which point it will randomly spawn the other side

2) Warping to a non-k162 of an unspawned wormhole will no longer pop the other side

3) Read point 1, k162s are on timers now and will activate after around 4 hours of being a live signature, regardless of being popped or not.


Not true. If no one warps to the entrance, the exit K162 never appears.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#11 - 2017-02-11 19:32:27 UTC
Jonn Duune wrote:
This is not entirely true anymore, it's been observed that:

1) A k162 will always spawn when a wormhole (from the non k162 side) is jumped, unless it has not been spawned within 4 hours, at which point it will randomly spawn the other side

2) Warping to a non-k162 of an unspawned wormhole will no longer pop the other side

3) Read point 1, k162s are on timers now and will activate after around 4 hours of being a live signature, regardless of being popped or not.


Source? The behavior of K162s isn't something that can be reliably "observed" because you can't predict where they'll appear. I don't think any K162 theory can be proved or disproved based on observation. This is a case in which the only reliable source is the developers themselves.
Abydos Strong
Abby Inc
#12 - 2017-02-12 04:15:31 UTC
There have been changes over time, my memory on exactly when the most recent iteration came to be is foggy, but I think it was when they did the patch which screwed over WH space with lots of extra connection spawns and those delightful frig holes (thanks fozzie)

The way it worked pre-change was that if a new connection spawned in your wormhole (like your new static for example) then so long as it was not warped to, the K162 side would remain unspawned for 4 hours, at which time it would automatically generate the connection. After the change, that 4 hour period was changed to 30 minutes, all other mechanics remaining the same. There may have been a time when not warping to your statics would keep the K162s permanently unspawned, but if it was it was before my time in WH space.

I cannot be bothered to go and find the references for this, but I do know that I never take mechanics changes seriously until I read it from a dev, and long ago I logged this as a fact of wormhole life in my memory. If you don't believe it because I don't have a source, that is fine, just operate under the assumption that your hole is locked down because your statics have not been warped to. And be sure to let us all know when you get podded.

Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#13 - 2017-02-12 12:29:39 UTC
The last change in wormhole mechanics was made in the Hyperion expansion, which is the expansion that introduced frigate wormholes.

The discussion on the mechanics is highlighted in the posts I quoted in my first reply.
The dev blog "posted before the discussion thread" is below:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/

So the discussion on the hyperion feedback thread came after the dev blog and it has the most updated info on WH mechanics.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#14 - 2017-02-12 14:19:26 UTC
Abydos Strong wrote:
The way it worked pre-change was that if a new connection spawned in your wormhole (like your new static for example) then so long as it was not warped to, the K162 side would remain unspawned for 4 hours, at which time it would automatically generate the connection. After the change, that 4 hour period was changed to 30 minutes, all other mechanics remaining the same.


Well,since you "couldn't be bothered" to cite a source, I spent about 30 minutes searching devblogs and forum posts for such a reference on the off-chance that I'd missed it. There is absolutely no mention of either a 4 hour timer or a 30 minute timer except from commenters making recommendations prior to Hyperion. Honestly, I think that's what you're remembering because there was quite a bit of discussion by users about using those times in lieu of the 15 hour lifetime rule - but that was never endorsed by the devs.

Duo Roman has provided the applicable links. If you don't agree that those links are current, then it's incumbent upon you to provide links to more current dev blogs. You can't insist that we simply trust you that such dev comments exist without evidence - especially given that they can't be found through a simple search.

This is a widely misunderstood topic precisely because of people who make statements without evidence. You're free to believe whatever you choose, but I don't want to see others being misled based on vague unsupported statements.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-02-12 23:15:28 UTC
They only relevant thing you need to know is that the K162 side now spawns on jump, not on warp to.
Everything else is semantics since it really doesn't matter.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#16 - 2017-02-13 00:38:30 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
They only relevant thing you need to know is that the K162 side now spawns on jump, not on warp to.
Everything else is semantics since it really doesn't matter.


That's certainly the most relevant thing if you're Wingspan looking to jump a wormhole resident unexpectedly - or a wormhole resident who needs to understand that when they see a new signature appear, a cloaked Wingspan fleet may already be on top of them. But the K162 mechanics for outgoing wormholes is not semantics if you're trying to isolate your hole. It's important to understand when your outgoing wormholes have a visible K162 on the other side.