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Curious question on Markeedragon and his shop and why no ban?
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Bear PawPaw
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-02-09 17:52:48 UTC
I came across MarkeeDragon on youtube, and notice he has a shop selling in game items for cash
,how is that allowed? I thought that is auto ban in any game.

I googled the terms and couldn't find anything that related to his action but other player's business getting shut down and banned.
Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2017-02-09 18:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
He is not selling in-game items.

He is selling PLEX and Aurum (which he is authorized to do, see CCP's list of timecode resellers). The 'items' you are seeing are the included card codes from various hard copy releases of EVE Online, such as the Second Decade Collector's Edition and others. Nothing about this is illegal- It's the same as if you purchased the afforementioned collector's edition and then sold the code card on ebay.
Bear PawPaw
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-02-09 18:12:40 UTC
Thank you for the detailed reply :)
Bear PawPaw
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-02-09 18:25:05 UTC
Follow up question, so it is not illegal to sell Plex? Like someone sells PLEX just like CCP.
Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2017-02-09 18:44:15 UTC
Bear PawPaw wrote:
Follow up question, so it is not illegal to sell Plex? Like someone sells PLEX just like CCP.


I believe there are appropriate channels you need to go through to be an approved timecode reseller. You may want to do a bit of research via Google or contact CCP directly through the support ticket system to inquire about such.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#6 - 2017-02-09 19:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

You can buy direct from any of these.
Panda PawPaw
Panda Sanctuary
#7 - 2017-02-09 19:03:36 UTC
Merias Tylar al-Akhwa wrote:
Bear PawPaw wrote:
Follow up question, so it is not illegal to sell Plex? Like someone sells PLEX just like CCP.


I believe there are appropriate channels you need to go through to be an approved timecode reseller. You may want to do a bit of research via Google or contact CCP directly through the support ticket system to inquire about such.



I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)
Cade Windstalker
#8 - 2017-02-09 19:11:42 UTC
Panda PawPaw wrote:
I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)


No, you are at no point here selling in-game items or anything you actually own. CCP allows third parties to put up storefronts to sell time codes on their behalf. This is no different from someone putting up an Amazon storefront with a bunch of their favorite products. At no point are they in position of the things they're selling.

The idea is that it lets players support groups, orgs, or people they like and CCP benefits because people are more likely to buy if they're supporting someone else as well.

Selling in-game items that you bought in-game will net you nothing but a ban.
Bear PawPaw
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-02-09 19:14:22 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Panda PawPaw wrote:
I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)


No, you are at no point here selling in-game items or anything you actually own. CCP allows third parties to put up storefronts to sell time codes on their behalf. This is no different from someone putting up an Amazon storefront with a bunch of their favorite products. At no point are they in position of the things they're selling.

The idea is that it lets players support groups, orgs, or people they like and CCP benefits because people are more likely to buy if they're supporting someone else as well.

Selling in-game items that you bought in-game will net you nothing but a ban.


So those 3rd party shops are not selling Plex from isk but selling codes that contain Plex?
mkint
#10 - 2017-02-09 19:25:30 UTC
Bear PawPaw wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Panda PawPaw wrote:
I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)


No, you are at no point here selling in-game items or anything you actually own. CCP allows third parties to put up storefronts to sell time codes on their behalf. This is no different from someone putting up an Amazon storefront with a bunch of their favorite products. At no point are they in position of the things they're selling.

The idea is that it lets players support groups, orgs, or people they like and CCP benefits because people are more likely to buy if they're supporting someone else as well.

Selling in-game items that you bought in-game will net you nothing but a ban.


So those 3rd party shops are not selling Plex from isk but selling codes that contain Plex?

It's about origination. It's always $ > Plex <-> isk/redeem. In this case being an authorized seller is more like an affiliate link for Amazon. It's still amazon (or in this case CCP) that's doing the actual selling, the person sharing the link it just getting a cut of it for driving traffic. A new plex is being spawned by CCP with that sale, it has never existed in-game. There is NEVER an in-game-asset -> $ transaction.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Bear PawPaw
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-02-09 19:32:09 UTC
mkint wrote:
Bear PawPaw wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Panda PawPaw wrote:
I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)


No, you are at no point here selling in-game items or anything you actually own. CCP allows third parties to put up storefronts to sell time codes on their behalf. This is no different from someone putting up an Amazon storefront with a bunch of their favorite products. At no point are they in position of the things they're selling.

The idea is that it lets players support groups, orgs, or people they like and CCP benefits because people are more likely to buy if they're supporting someone else as well.

Selling in-game items that you bought in-game will net you nothing but a ban.


So those 3rd party shops are not selling Plex from isk but selling codes that contain Plex?

It's about origination. It's always $ > Plex <-> isk/redeem. In this case being an authorized seller is more like an affiliate link for Amazon. It's still amazon (or in this case CCP) that's doing the actual selling, the person sharing the link it just getting a cut of it for driving traffic. A new plex is being spawned by CCP with that sale, it has never existed in-game. There is NEVER an in-game-asset -> $ transaction.


Ah I get it now, thank you :)
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#12 - 2017-02-10 09:55:01 UTC
MarkeeDragon has been selling virtual items since the 90s.

Longer than EVE has been around, some of his online interviews are interesting.

Here is one on goldfarming...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWvHcoqru7I

MarkeeDragon has been at the forefront of the nebulous border between real and virtual trading.

Which is about 30 years ahead of the current legal system which still struggles with the concept of money as being real and virtual.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#13 - 2017-02-10 10:05:10 UTC
Bear PawPaw wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Panda PawPaw wrote:
I don't understand the model, so a player can farm isk ingame to buy plex from the market, then sell the Plex for real life money? I fail so bad at recognizing the difference between that versus a player selling a Merlin ship for real life money?

Ingameisk - > Plex -> real life money (not illgeal)
Ingameisk - > Merlin - > real life money (illgeal?)


No, you are at no point here selling in-game items or anything you actually own. CCP allows third parties to put up storefronts to sell time codes on their behalf. This is no different from someone putting up an Amazon storefront with a bunch of their favorite products. At no point are they in position of the things they're selling.

The idea is that it lets players support groups, orgs, or people they like and CCP benefits because people are more likely to buy if they're supporting someone else as well.

Selling in-game items that you bought in-game will net you nothing but a ban.


So those 3rd party shops are not selling Plex from isk but selling codes that contain Plex?



CCP allows some 3rd party companies to sell PLEX. The 3rd party gets some of the real world cash, CCP gets the rest of the cash. Those sellers have to abide by a set of rules set up by CCP to do this.

The sellers are not buying PLEX inside the game then selling them to players for cash.

When a player buys a PLEX from a 3rd party seller, they have to give enough details to identify their character. The seller forwards the character details to CCP, along with CCP's share of the real world cash for the PLEX. CCP then adds a PLEX to the game for the character to collect when they log in. This all automated, the sellers software that runs their online store handles sending the character details and electronic money transfer to CCP.

Buying a PLEX or other item that is already in the game and selling it to another player fpr real world cash is bannable. Sending cash to CCP and telling them to "give 1 PLEX to character X" is not bannable, it's part of CCP's real world business model.

If a seller offers some special item (buy 3 PLEX, get 1 unit of tritanium for free as a bonus item), it has to be something CCP approves of.