EVE General Discussion

Addendum: to give an idea about risk, when I was in DR and we were neighbours of Brick Squad and others, we'd frequently go "visit" a nearby L4 0.0 mission system (we roamed A LOT in enemy space, and no, 0.0 default gate camps won't stop a decent roam).

We could completely paralyze the whole place for whatever long time just by being there (and we were well more dangerous than the usual "AFK cloak alt").

The guys in there had to:

- not use faction ships

- not use faction mods (maybe some deadspace cheap-ie if they got it ratting nearby)

- some times fit cloak further gimping ships that were already without the additional boons faction ships get

- screw their mission, I had some corp mates able to probe missioneers down in 15 seconds

- stay well put in station for hours and who came out would be double bubbled and podded.


Sure after a while they would summon the chivalry and we had to GTFO but their afternoon was broken anyway. And no, the increased LP and pirate BPCs imho would not cover the hassle of all of the above.



Now, how much of this do you have to deal with, when you kill Sansha?

Why would we go to High Sec to run incursions, when we can do it in the comfort and safety of our Sov Systems and make more ISK doing it. People that live in Null are not much different then people that live in Empire, the only huge difference is that we arn't swayed by killboard stats and that whole 'omg I can get killed if im not paying attention' thing. (Obviously there are very real risks involved, but after Andski's post, I don't see a need to harp in on these as much- it should be blatantly obvious that even the most defended 0.0 space has afk cloakers, roams, bubble camps, and all sorts of other 'not blue' people looking to shoot something)

Bear in mind this is my interpretation, I've never run an Incursion, but I have listened in/read/talked about what the general consensus is behind nerfing them- is essentially that once the MS spawns, it doesn't despawn on any set time scale, and as long as it is up, the system generates positive influence towards Sansha Control; in doing so, it also spawns more sites that the IncurionBear can run. The problem here is, time table depending, without engaging the 'end encounter' of the incursion, you can prolong the ISK faucet to maximum duration, creating more ISK then was initially intended by CCP. (Keep in mind that this works in all 'area's of space Empire, Low and Null; and the reward scales relatively accordingly).

The general premise behind the people rallying against this lies in the Risk vs. Reward vision/priniciples that CCP have. Before you attempt to troll me based on what I have said, please realize that I look at all PvE content in this game as roughly the same (however unfortunate that may be), it holds true in missions, complexes, anomalies, wormholes, escalations and incursions; its all one huge game of:

Step 1. Activate hardeners, Warp to 'Site'
Step 2. Orbit anchor structure or ship
Step 3. Target NPC, Push f1
Step 4. Wait for grey bars to turn red
Step 5. Once NPC explodes, go back to Step 3.

Sounds like the problem lies in the risk/reward of null, not hisec. If the payouts in null don't cover the hassle like you say above, why bother at all? That has nothing to do with hisec rewards but taking one step forward and two back. If that's what the bears have to look forward to in null, no one will think that is worth their $15/mo.

why the long face?

Its weekend and all incursibears are online ginding billions of isk every hour... Oh, wait... Theres no highsec incursions.

Incursions are working as intended!

Instead, missions are being grind more than ever, even if theres highsec incursions up. Removal of agent quality made those large mission hubs disappear, but it doesnt mean that missionbears disappeared too. They are there, just flying under the radar, in some backend system.

Edit. This is the only fix highsec incursions need

It's not a problem of R/R in null, because those guys would still return doing their PvE after we left. They were not escaping back to hi sec. It was an example of fine balance between risk and reward, some days they get the booty some days we did.

What's wrong with the current implementation of incursions? They are one of the few un-nerfed ISK faucets left in EvE. Missions were nerfed like 3 times in the last years, even 0.0 anomalies got (over) nerfed to the point CCP had to re-tweak them.

ISK faucets can be BAD, they are only needed to offset the global financial balance sinks to keep an equilibrium.

The moment one of them gets exploited then the equilibrium starts breaking and this is when CCP have to come in and close the loop hole.

Notice there are many huge money makers in EvE (moon mining, trading...) but none of them creates ISK out of thin air.

Paradoxically, it's more global economy damaging one exploited incursion than 1 year of moon goo selling. The former creates some billions out of thin air, the latter only involves (much) ISK changing hands. Minus sov fees and similar (this makes moon mining actually an ISK sink).

CCP should not pander to bots so you shouldn't get special treatment for actively playing.

got any evidence to back that up?

"early closure" isn't abuse, it's running them the way they're intended