Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This pretty much assumes that Citadels are only aimed at large Null groups, which absolutely isn't the case. They're a POS replacement. The main thing that stops the larger groups from going around knocking over every smaller group they can find is a lack of incentive to do so. Citadels drop a bit, but not enough to justify the effort for most larger groups. If you could take the Citadel *and* everything in it then suddenly that's a pretty strong incentive for larger groups to go around knocking over every Citadel they can find.

At that point you've now priced most smaller entities out of Citadel ownership, something CCP explicitly didn't want to do and have very openly worked against with these new structure designs. That's why the new Structures don't start at the Fortizar, so smaller groups can make use of them and afford them.



This is just flatly unrealistic. Larger groups have never acted as police for smaller ones in Eve. They've taken advantage of them, mentored them, killed them and ignored them but they've never said "make too much trouble and we'll take your stuff". Whether or not a smaller group is around isn't even going to matter to most larger ones, a larger group has the resources to kick someone else's stuff over and defend their own timers, a smaller one is likely to lose whether they have a timer to hit 20 jumps away or not.



Which is why I say this would just push everyone, large and small, away from staging out of Citadels. I can say this with a fair amount of certainty because that's literally what used to happen when there weren't better places to stage. This is literally the problem Outposts were put into the game to solve and the reason they're a safer place to keep your stuff than a POS.



More likely you'd see people just avoid the bad mechanics entirely, because that's what this would turn Citadels into for Sov Null entities, a bad mechanic. If you only have one doctrine then you're SOL when someone brings that doctrine's counter. Better to pull back to a place you can actually defend rather than try to mount a bad defense somewhere indefensible.



Again, we're back to people minimizing things to mitigate risk where as the current system encourages people to use the mechanics and take risks.

More to the point here, and I think the biggest flaw in your idea here, there's no reason for this. Your main issue seems to be that there's no reason for people to defend some Citadels. If a 2b+ structure isn't enough of an incentive then what makes you think a few bil more in assets is going to tip the scales?

Your idea here seems to be balanced, rather precariously IMO, on the assumption that people are going to be just as willing to stuff Citadels full of their belongings when you massively reduce the safety of doing so, and that the risk to all of this stuff is going to drive conflict.

As a rational problem solver and something of a spreadsheets monkey I can guarantee you that this won't work. People will immediately take one look at that and either find an NPC station, or a Citadel in NPC Sov Null or Low Sec to stage out of or some other way to mitigate the risk down to an acceptable level again. One where they're probably perfectly happy ignoring that Citadel timer the same way people have ignored POS timers for over a decade now.

When I think of SOV null, I think of a place where large groups fight over sovereignty of space. A small group in SOV is like me telling the Gov't that my property is now sovereign property of Pervert Land. It's dumb, and if they wanted to they could take the land from me with as much force as they needed, then toss my backside into an asylum where it belongs.

If you want to rent in SOV, then rent in a protected system, and have the people who own the system offer protection for said system.

Totally my own opinion of SOV null, but to me it's made for the bigger groups to shove each other around. It's made for cut-throat stuff. If they need to increase the rewards to match the risk of living in such a place (W-space being a prime example of increased risk and reward over sov null) then that's a great idea.

Essentially, I'm thinking of increasing risk/reward in the following order:
1) Hisec
2) Lowsec
3) NPC null
4) SOV null
5) W-space


Each has increasing risks and rewards. I'm just amplifying them for the sake of giving people a reason to fight.

Consider in SOV null, before citadels existed. You controlled the space, you have the station.

You lose the station.

Sure you have a hope of getting your assets back eventaully.. but you could be waiting years. At some point you have to accept that it's gone. This is just ripping that bandaid off, rather than grimacing at it and slowly pulling at it trying to not remove the now-doomed hair underneath.

nope these things need to be destroyed

Or even sell it. I've had to do that a few times. I don't recover the full ISK value but 75% or 80% is better than nothing.

What would happen is groups like Goons would keep the bulk of their assets in outposts, conquerable stations and/or NPC stations. I'm sure other groups would follow suit. Soon citadels will be used for tactical and strategic purposes but with very little in the way of assets inside them.

What has to be remembered is players have a choice.

I'm against a capture mechanic for one main reason: Things need to die to drive the market to build them. If citadels can be captured the market for them would disappear after a while.

Please explain how I evac my stuff out of your hangar. This is the point I am trying to make here.

I evacuated stuff out of the north after the stations and the sov were taken. Please explain why that is a bad idea. Please explain why you expect me to continue to play if the citadel I live in is taken while I am asleep and all my stuff ends up in your hangar.

Quit being a scrub and alarm clock for it of course. Ain't no place for a normal life when you play EVE in SOV space.

None of this even comes close to justifying you idea. What you are being told, repeatedly, in this thread is that if it's a choice between ridiculously risky living conditions or just congregating somewhere almost as good for none of that risk people will pick option B. Whether that's a Citadel parked 1 jump into NPC Null, an NPC station, or something else entirely.

Regardless you would completely kill Citadel usage and the ability for line members to live out of them with this proposed change.