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Hi CCP: Suggested changes to default overview
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Naxirian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-02-07 12:51:27 UTC
Hi everyone

I'm not sure how many times this has been brought up, if at all, but would it not make sense to change the default overview settings so that people in your fleet, corp, alliance, or militia automatically show their friendly background colour on the overview instead of suspect/outlaw?

I am a long term member of Minmatar FW and in FW you constantly get newer players attacking their own side because of this flaw in the default overview priorities, which results in them getting killed by their own side. This happens literally every single day for me as I am both a member of the militia and an outlaw.

*All* player-made overviews correct this problem, but most newbies don't know about these custom overviews, and it gets them killed or labelled as awoxers until someone helps them out.

A simple change of the default overview to over-ride outlaws and suspects with the appropriate friendly background colour on the overview if they're in a friendly group would be very helpful to new players.

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2017-02-07 13:07:07 UTC
I'm going to say no, because it makes for some hilariosuly entertaining moments.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Scrapyard Artificer's
#3 - 2017-02-07 13:22:20 UTC
Suggestions to change the default overview are wholly unnecessary, you can customize the overview to do exactly that and more.
Naxirian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-02-07 13:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Naxirian
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
Suggestions to change the default overview are wholly unnecessary, you can customize the overview to do exactly that and more.


Yes but it doesn't come that way by default, and newbies are not aware of how to change it or that there are pre-made overview packs done by players. I speak from experience that lots and lots of newbies get themselves killed this way. It seems like a small, simple change that would help a lot of new players out. It's discouraging to get blown up by your own side.

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Wolfgang Jannesen
Scrapyard Artificer's
#5 - 2017-02-07 13:33:23 UTC
Naxirian wrote:
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
Suggestions to change the default overview are wholly unnecessary, you can customize the overview to do exactly that and more.


Yes but it doesn't come that way by default, and newbies are not aware of how to change it or that there are pre-made overview packs done by players. I speak from experience that lots and lots of newbies get themselves killed this way. It seems like a small, simple change that would help a lot of new players out. It's discouraging to get blown up by your own side.


I guess so, but this doesn't come down to a gameplay issue or improvement as much as three button clicks that you'll eventually learn how to do, just like booking safe spots and scanning.
Naxirian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-02-07 14:19:11 UTC
True, but it seems kind of silly that it has been this way for years. It's the #1 cause of diplomatic incidents between corps in FW for example. Happens constantly, every day, because FW draws a lot of new players into PvP.

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2017-02-07 14:28:58 UTC
Naxirian wrote:
True, but it seems kind of silly that it has been this way for years. It's the #1 cause of diplomatic incidents between corps in FW for example. Happens constantly, every day, because FW draws a lot of new players into PvP.

Maybe it's designed this way for a reason... Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#8 - 2017-02-07 14:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Naxirian wrote:
*All* player-made overviews correct this problem, but most newbies don't know about these custom overviews, and it gets them killed or labelled as awoxers until someone helps them out.

Let me start out with this. The default overview settings need to serve a wide range of play styles and group environments and the current ones do that significantly better than your suggestion.

In the end the section of your post quoted above contains the answer to your problem.
As a veteran player in the group it is YOUR responsibility to educate the new recruits on what your specific section of the Minmatar militia does and how you do it, this includes basics like how to change your overview settings. Even better and this requires no changes to the game simply save your overview settings and pass them on to your new players as part of the education process and you will all benefit. The new players learn about overview settings and how to import / export them and your problem with shooting the wrong people is eliminated.

To recap.
-1 because lazy, there are easy ways in the game already to solve this, your idea is only better as a default for your group not specifically for every group.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2017-02-07 21:57:34 UTC
I'm pretty sure the default overview is flawed for a reason. this is not the only area where the default overview is bad

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#10 - 2017-02-07 22:06:48 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I'm pretty sure the default overview is flawed for a reason. this is not the only area where the default overview is bad


I'm pretty sure the reason is that it hasn't been changed in literally nine years, and that's only the time I can speak to. Added to, sure, but the defaults haven't been changed as long as I can remember.

This is one of the things we used to have to tell people in Eve Uni too, "ignore these default overview settings, now go set it up how we tell you to so you don't make a mess".

As funny as things like this are to us vets I'd rather seen someone cut their teeth on an actual ship loss than feeling like they got shanked for literally no reason and then told it was their fault. That's not the Eve experience, if you're going to get back stabbed it should be by another player's planning and guile, not because of a kind of an overview feature that is entirely non-obvious before it's pointed out to you.

Getting popped for a reason makes you want to go get revenge, getting popped because the game was bad at something makes you want to quit the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2017-02-07 22:18:48 UTC
problem is no default overview will work

what a FW pilot needs is not the same as a HS pilot and what a NS pilot needs is not the same as a WH pilot

its better just to have a crap overview that you are told as a new player to change by the group you join

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2017-02-08 03:30:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
problem is no default overview will work

what a FW pilot needs is not the same as a HS pilot and what a NS pilot needs is not the same as a WH pilot

its better just to have a crap overview that you are told as a new player to change by the group you join


I'm not saying there's one perfect default overview, but having the default overwrite criminal status over Corp and Fleet status is just pants on head [REDACTED]

I have literally never seen a widely used overview that defaults to that. The only time I can think you might possibly want it is as a pirate in Low or ganker and even then only to check which of your fleet mates still has a timer, not as a general purpose overview.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2017-02-08 03:34:06 UTC
no i think since you start in an npc corp having criminal over right corp by default is a good idea

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#14 - 2017-02-08 12:58:43 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no i think since you start in an npc corp having criminal over right corp by default is a good idea

I agree.
As I stated in my last post, this is not about a change that needs to be made to the game, this is about a lazy veteran play who cannot be bothered to spend maybe 5 minutes with a new player to teach them how to change their overview. And then doubles down on that laziness by not sending that new player the proper overview settings for their group or activity.
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2017-02-08 15:55:02 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no i think since you start in an npc corp having criminal over right corp by default is a good idea


Okay that's fair, but I'm not seeing a particularly good reason for it to overwrite Fleet.

Heck, we could solve all of this with a quick addition to the Tutorial on how to modify the Overview.
Naxirian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2017-02-10 11:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Naxirian
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no i think since you start in an npc corp having criminal over right corp by default is a good idea


This is true, I hadn't thought of this. Though that is basically the only situation I can think of where the current default priorities are helpful.

As mentioned above, perhaps something in the tutorial explaining how to change your overview would be helpful. It's about as clear as mud to a new player.

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2 x R9 290X 4GB Crossfire @ 1150MHz

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Cade Windstalker
#17 - 2017-02-10 15:50:59 UTC
Naxirian wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no i think since you start in an npc corp having criminal over right corp by default is a good idea


This is true, I hadn't thought of this. Though that is basically the only situation I can think of where the current default priorities are helpful.

As mentioned above, perhaps something in the tutorial explaining how to change your overview would be helpful. It's about as clear as mud to a new player.


It's about as clear as mud to most older players too. The only reason I know how to mess with it is because I basically fiddled with things until they broke and then learned how to put them back together again. I'm literally at the point of editing my saved overviews in Notepad to add the things the game client will display but the editor won't support adding, like colors and fonts.