These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

make high sec incursion sites pvp zones
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-01-20 21:01:25 UTC
I like the idea of this. If they stop SOPA, I will sign this.

However, SOPA is the route cause of Dec21/2012. Anonymous will hack nukes into exploding because they can't watch free pr0nz on the interwebs due to copyright claims.

Dodixie > Hek
Scorpious
Shadow Council
#102 - 2012-01-21 00:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scorpious
Hi sec incursions have risk. They also offer new pilots a way to make isk and get into better equipped ships. If you want to play in null sec, go there. CCP seems to have struck a good balance between Hi / Null sec incursions, so the old adage stands "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". As for a 0.0 pocket in hi sec, I don't think its a good idea. If you want to gank an incursion fleet, there are numerous ways to do it.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#103 - 2012-01-21 00:30:39 UTC
Buff Jesus wrote:
Would this be a registering to enter the fun kind of thing or a temporary 0.0 in high sec? I'd hate to be the person who's home turf got turned into a lawless war zone overnight.


welcome to EVE.

Also, OP, absolutely fantastic idea.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#104 - 2012-01-21 00:31:15 UTC
Please explain the 'risk' involved in high sec incursions, and don't make me laugh.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#105 - 2012-01-21 01:03:51 UTC
See personally I don't think it's as much a reward for the risk as it is a reward for the planning and investment.

Making 50-60 mil p/h in a pug battleship fleet is as much as you can make from L4'ing. Shiny fleets who are making the lower end of "the big money" still put the investment in to get the larger pay out and require some organisation to put together, though I'll grant and accept that the organisation is done by the few for the gains of the many. There are some SF channels with a lot of freeloaders who waltz in with a good fit and barely pull their weight in the system.

Then you've got the higher end isk makers, the 150 mil fleets. These fleets run like clockwork, the logistics and planning put in, having smooth changeovers and pre scouted sites allows them to move rapidly from blitz to blitz (different debate altogether but my thoughts on the issue of VG blitzing and how to fix it has been put elsewhere)

In site actions are fast and co-ordinated with everything done as effective as possible so to use as little time as necessary, going as far as shaving a handful of seconds off your completion time. Further more the 150 mil fleets don't make that kind of money without competing, and not just going in first, or at the same time, but hitting an already underway site and still getting the pay over the other group. Infact some people have whined at fleets like this following them around and stealing the pay from under their nose as griefing, it's competition and someone's going home with no isk, less ammo and near burned out guns that they have to sit and wait to repair (which kills your uptime further)

It's rewarding min/maxing, not just the setup but the efficiency. Now do I believe the current system is balanced so that the sites that give the best rewards are also the ones offering the most challenge? No I don't, and I'd gladly see them reworked so that the organised fleets can be making their money in Assaults and HQ's and leave the Vanguards to smaller less established fleets to make their income at an above mission grinding level.



Making them no risk duckshoots for people who want easy kills is not how to balance it, besides where's the risk for the pirates?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Maximille Biagge
Hydra Eternal
#106 - 2012-01-21 01:04:21 UTC
I support this thread.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#107 - 2012-01-21 01:10:06 UTC
Please explain how it would make incursions no-risk duckshoots. 'pirates' could be shot at just as easily as 'carebears'.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#108 - 2012-01-21 01:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Lady Spank wrote:
Please explain how it would make incursions no-risk duckshoots. 'pirates' could be shot at just as easily as 'carebears'.


Because Incursion fleets are limited to x number of people otherwise the payouts are next to nothing.

A Pirate fleet wouldn't have a limit enforced on them and can roll safely in large numbers, and alpha off the NPC's primaries.


Edit: And no, limiting the numbers that can enter an incursion plex is not a fix, that would break the entire point of the competitive mechanic.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#109 - 2012-01-21 01:17:01 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Please explain the 'risk' involved in high sec incursions, and don't make me laugh.


No one evere loses ships in an incursion?

I realize I've never done one, but I've certainly heard enough about them to know that they are not "Risk free" Unless you have a highly competent group.
I'm sure your aware of just how many "Highly competent" players there are in the game, so your "Risk Free" comment does not seem to hold much weight.....

This thread mirrors the problems in our society.
People are too busy worrying about what the other guy is doing, instead of doing what's best for themselves....In this case, playing the game for entertainment, rather than worrying about who's getting more isk than you....Cool

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#110 - 2012-01-21 01:23:16 UTC
In this thread people defend the right to be incompetent while having access to high levels of income.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#111 - 2012-01-21 01:28:57 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
In this thread people defend the right to be incompetent while having access to high levels of income.


In this thread people want no risk pvp, and stick their fingers in their ears and "lalala" at the top of their voice whenever their daft ideas are questioned.

Perhaps you've missed my posts where I've said I'd like incursions rebalanced, I hear selective reading does that to people.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#112 - 2012-01-21 01:30:45 UTC
How is it no risk PVP when everyone can be shot.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#113 - 2012-01-21 01:37:19 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
How is it no risk PVP when everyone can be shot.


Read my above reply on this one. Where's the risk in jumping in with a fleet 4-5x bigger and just alpha-ing the incursion fleet? Let's face it, you've more risk of losing a ship in an incursion due to player error or NPC jamming of your logis than you have losing here.

Moreso when you can scan what's inside from the gate you know whether or not it's even worth going into in the first place, so you can pick and choose your fights.


Where's the risk, and I'm talking real risk here. Because let's face it, no one else is going to jump in if they see a fleet already blowing up an incursion fleet, they'll just go look elsewhere.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#114 - 2012-01-21 01:40:11 UTC
You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-01-21 01:49:07 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites?
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#116 - 2012-01-21 01:52:55 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.


Uhuh, this is PvE content that is suppose to be easy to get into and involved with. Now ontop of them forming a fleet to run the sites you're now expecting the casual elements of the playerbase to also form defensive fleets to counter being dropped on? I mean really, the people that x up in incursion public channels and make about 50-60 mil an hour?

Sure some of the more organised groups may well be able to form up a fleet from their ranks to defend their mission runners, but what happens to their income. They aren't getting paid to do it, share out the incursion isk? Suddenly it's worth less than running an L4 and wow we're back to square one.

Further more you'll learn pretty quick who has counter fleets and who to avoid, like in all other forms of pvp. It's amazing how many people will dodge fights when they know there's a risk they might not be flying out of this one.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Ai Shun
#117 - 2012-01-21 02:01:06 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites?


I believe the proposal is to have slower CONCORD response to the actual Incursion site. The system itself remains normal.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#118 - 2012-01-21 02:02:04 UTC
Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#119 - 2012-01-21 02:03:09 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites?


I believe the proposal is to have slower CONCORD response to the actual Incursion site. The system itself remains normal.

No CONCORD, sites not systems.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#120 - 2012-01-21 02:07:29 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites?


I believe the proposal is to have slower CONCORD response to the actual Incursion site. The system itself remains normal.

No CONCORD, sites not systems.


I was proposing a slower CONCORD response to the system as an alternative. The OP wanted no CONCORD. In my opinion the risk should increase once the mother ship appears since it is a big old nasty invasion.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet