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Why do people seem to hate ECM in particular of all the Ewar types?
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Keno Skir
#81 - 2017-02-01 17:25:21 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
the majority view is that EVE should have more effective ECM, not less.

Actually, I think the majority view ECM to be fine at its current level.

Sure, it can be annoying to get ECM'd when roaming around solo or in a small gank. But one can take measures to diminish the chances of taking engagements against people with ECM. Just like miners can take measures to decrease the chance of getting suicide ganked.

But miners don't. They prefer to come to the forums and whine.

It's a matter of consistency.

The majority is in favor of griefing, which has exactly the (supposedly) negative effects that the ECM-whiners here claim are bad about ECM. It follows that the majority is also in favor of ECM, and like griefing, they want to see more ECM, and for it to be harder to counter.

BTW - don't assume that my suggestion of a ranged bumping module has anything to do with mining. EVE players aren't just supporters of CODE (and anyway you could argue CODE are honest blackmailers rather than griefers) .

A long-range bumping module would be helpful for many other kinds of griefing too - the point is that it can't be countered. ECM should be the same: there should be a skill that lets you get the probability of ECM taking effect to 100%.


Linking every conversation to your original butt-hurtness about griefers, regardless of the original topic Pirate

Standard Hakawai.. You must be very dry by now, with the rate you're losing liquid Roll

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

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Wanda Fayne
#82 - 2017-02-01 17:25:36 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Caldari need ECM because their PvP ships suck (outside of RLM Caracals and Cerb fleets).
Take away ECM and their empire dies.P


Good thing we have the Guristas Master Race ships then.


A Guristas ECM-bonused ship would be OP.

Can I has one...?
Puhleez?

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Valkin Mordirc
#83 - 2017-02-02 02:11:04 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Caldari need ECM because their PvP ships suck (outside of RLM Caracals and Cerb fleets).
Take away ECM and their empire dies.P


Good thing we have the Guristas Master Race ships then.


A Guristas ECM-bonused ship would be OP.

Can I has one...?
Puhleez?


Ask and you shall...pay 150 billion?
#DeleteTheWeak
Wanda Fayne
#84 - 2017-02-02 03:14:18 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Caldari need ECM because their PvP ships suck (outside of RLM Caracals and Cerb fleets).
Take away ECM and their empire dies.P


Good thing we have the Guristas Master Race ships then.


A Guristas ECM-bonused ship would be OP.

Can I has one...?
Puhleez?


Ask and you shall...pay 150 billion?


Ooh, a Covops Gila with ECM!
Damn, I'm a few coins short...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2017-02-02 03:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
<>
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#86 - 2017-02-02 04:29:21 UTC
I have all e-war skills totally maxed, but Falcon is my least favorite Recon to fly, as I find that it's not very reliable/I do not have complete control.

As people said, it's RNG, and when it works it's great - it can bail out your friends (when making a run), it can nullify their DPS/'Logi, or counter opponents' E-War, etc, etc. But that RNG element is really a big deal. With other Recons, like Rapier, you can be very confident that with double/tripple long range webs you can control the range. With Arazu with long scram & uber damps you know you can keep someone pointed safely (although long scram thing is a bit outshiend by HIC now :p). With Curse/Pilgrim you know you can neut them dry.

All the other ships you can fly the way you want to control it. ECM is well.. random. :p

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#87 - 2017-02-02 16:21:05 UTC
Toobo wrote:
I have all e-war skills totally maxed, but Falcon is my least favorite Recon to fly, as I find that it's not very reliable/I do not have complete control.

As people said, it's RNG, and when it works it's great - it can bail out your friends (when making a run), it can nullify their DPS/'Logi, or counter opponents' E-War, etc, etc. But that RNG element is really a big deal. With other Recons, like Rapier, you can be very confident that with double/tripple long range webs you can control the range. With Arazu with long scram & uber damps you know you can keep someone pointed safely (although long scram thing is a bit outshiend by HIC now :p). With Curse/Pilgrim you know you can neut them dry.

All the other ships you can fly the way you want to control it. ECM is well.. random. :p


Very much this.

ECM is hated because it has a very low skill floor, works against everything, and is totally binary.

I think it would be more interesting if ECM simply broke locks, forcing the effected pilot to relock everything. Large ships with long lock times would take a long time to relock. But they also have much higher sensor strength. So they would be effected less often. Small ships would be effected frequently. But they can lock fast. So they can just relock and be done with it.

Focusing multiple ECM modules staggered in cycle time would be a thing. But isn't it already?

TD/MGD/damps are less effective than ECM on a module-by-module scale because there is some measure of counter-play. But when used in multiples, they are consistently more effective. The difference lies in that the affected pilot does not realize how screwed he or she really is. Their guns/missiles will still cycle. They just won't hit anything.

3 range-scripted damps from a Maulus reduces lock range by upt o 90% with Info Burst active.

An ECCM-scripted sensor booster is effective vs every ECM module or drone that is directed at it. That same sebo is only as good as a single damp, and is completely useless vs disruptors. You need either a TC or MGC to counter those.

Speaking of Disruptors, 3x range-scripted MGDs reduces missile range by 90%. 3x range-scripted TDs reduce turret range by a whopping 95%. The difference here is that those are useless vs any non-dps ships as well as drones, or even weapons of the wrong type. They are far less versatile than ECM. But what they lack in versatility they make up for in effectiveness.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
LouHodo
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#88 - 2017-02-02 16:57:46 UTC
All of this hate over ECM still doesnt make sense to me. Maybe because I am newer, maybe it is because I understand how ECM works in real life and know it is pretty much an all or nothing system.

Let us take the ECM on a F-16 Falcon, if it activates its jammer pod, it will jam every radar with in a set frequency range, no if ands or buts. BUT it is limited in range, and effectiveness, not to mention it doesnt make the craft invisible, it makes it VERY visible, as now it is a giant blob of electronic noise. So to counter this most modern anti-air missiles have a Home On Jam function (HOJ). This is why we have aircraft like the E/A-6, and the E/A-18, E/F-111, they are multi-spectrum "broadband" jamming. These aircraft are mostly unarmed and are packed with ECM equipment. Much like the dedicated EWAR jammers in game.

So if you have an EWAR jammer ship in game, you sacrifice the ability to fight for yourself to fit all of the needed jamming equipment to be effective. And your worst fear is a dedicated anti-EWAR craft, call it an "Iron Hand" craft, with all of the sensor boosters, and target painters and range to pick you apart at a range where you cant even think about jamming him.

Just saying that for every form of play there is a counter. It just takes effort, time and dedication.

In a short amount of time I can think of 2 ships that would be good at countering T1 ECM ships that are T1 themselves and cheap.

Vigil, with its target painter bonuses, and fitted with additional ECCM and sensor upgrades, can out range ANY ECM T1 ship.
And then there is the Maulus, with its sensor dampers can easily counter the speed at which a ECM ship can lock and disrupt any of your vessels.

So yeah... for every point there is a counter point.