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WoD and DUST never borrowed EVE devs, but EVEApocrypha borrowed WoD/DUST devs
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Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#21 - 2011-09-16 17:48:58 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The first few responses to the OP are correct. EVE is the main thing generating income for CCP right now. Eve dies, so does the CCP and all of the spin off projects. So it's in the CCP's interest (whatever you think about businesses) to ensure that Eve is successful.


they're not right in their whining that "omg CCP Is spending money on other things, that means eve is being neglected!!!"

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#22 - 2011-09-16 17:52:25 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The first few responses to the OP are correct. EVE is the main thing generating income for CCP right now. Eve dies, so does the CCP and all of the spin off projects. So it's in the CCP's interest (whatever you think about businesses) to ensure that Eve is successful.


they're not right in their whining that "omg CCP Is spending money on other things, that means eve is being neglected!!!"



Sigh. Do I really need to type:

"Its all about proportion" one more time?

Any money does not automatically equal too much money. But it is possible to spend too much money on other projects. Calm down, have a cup of tea and try to start at the beginning.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
AFKCloaked AltSpy
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-09-16 17:53:55 UTC
Quote:
"We continue to pay for EVE, so we expect it to continue to get better" is a reasonable expectation that has essentially stopped being met in the past 2 years.


So, you electronically signed a document that explicitly states otherwise, and its a reasonable expectation?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I hit the nail on the head.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#24 - 2011-09-16 17:56:38 UTC
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:
Quote:
"We continue to pay for EVE, so we expect it to continue to get better" is a reasonable expectation that has essentially stopped being met in the past 2 years.


So, you electronically signed a document that explicitly states otherwise, and its a reasonable expectation?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I hit the nail on the head.


What the heck is going on with this thread? You'd be forgiven for thinking there are some players of this game who DONT want continued and significant development and improvement of Eve Online.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Mai Kusoni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-09-16 18:08:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Kusoni
Jade Constantine wrote:
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:
Quote:
"We continue to pay for EVE, so we expect it to continue to get better" is a reasonable expectation that has essentially stopped being met in the past 2 years.


So, you electronically signed a document that explicitly states otherwise, and its a reasonable expectation?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I hit the nail on the head.


What the heck is going on with this thread? You'd be forgiven for thinking there are some players of this game who DONT want continued and significant development and improvement of Eve Online.


Perhaps some of us feel that WiS is a significant development and improvement of Eve Online. If CCP intended EVE to suffer, they would not develop DUST. DUST depends on EVE to function.
AFKCloaked AltSpy
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-09-16 18:12:21 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:
Quote:
"We continue to pay for EVE, so we expect it to continue to get better" is a reasonable expectation that has essentially stopped being met in the past 2 years.


So, you electronically signed a document that explicitly states otherwise, and its a reasonable expectation?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I hit the nail on the head.


What the heck is going on with this thread? You'd be forgiven for thinking there are some players of this game who DONT want continued and significant development and improvement of Eve Online.


Just stating the obvious.

Imagine If I sent an email to the Board of directors @ Intel and told them how to develop processors because I bought one.

I want eve to be developed by professional developers, and managed by professional managers. Feedback from their customer base is important on game content, feedback from their customer base on management of the company is a waste of time.

I understand that players feel they are not allocating their resources the way the players think they should be managed. And those players do not have all of the information required to come to a sound conclusion on the subject.

CCP has a web page of positions they are hiring for if anyone thinks they can do a better job. Honest to God.
.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#27 - 2011-09-16 18:12:23 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The first few responses to the OP are correct. EVE is the main thing generating income for CCP right now. Eve dies, so does the CCP and all of the spin off projects. So it's in the CCP's interest (whatever you think about businesses) to ensure that Eve is successful.


they're not right in their whining that "omg CCP Is spending money on other things, that means eve is being neglected!!!"



Sigh. Do I really need to type:

"Its all about proportion" one more time?

Any money does not automatically equal too much money. But it is possible to spend too much money on other projects. Calm down, have a cup of tea and try to start at the beginning.


if you seriously think i'm not calm then you really need to stop assuming context into other people's posts. i'm being more sarcastic than anything.

as for proportion.. lol - all these emorage on the forums over CQ, NeX, and Dust/WOD supposedly stealing dev time from eve. and i find a dev post where it is explicitly stated that Dust/WOD stole no devs from EVE, but EVE (For a while) stole devs from Dust/WOD .. and people STILL are trying to claim that CCP is neglecting EVE. ... and people just started repeating the same BS they've been saying for weeks.

yeah... that's "all about proportion". riiiiiiiiight.

TLDR: EVE dev clearly states that WoD/DUST didn't steal resources from EVE. I repost it, people say "no, they did!" - i mock these people.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Darkil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-09-16 18:12:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Darkil wrote:
I can see what you guys are saying but those arguing that EVE money shouldn't be used on WoD or Dust should go tell blizzard that the money they make with WoW should't have been used on starcraft 2.

Look at it this way. If these game are successful that money will flow back into CCP and EVE. If they have a chance to make more money that could put more into eve than what it currently gets just from subscribers right now then I'm all for it.

CCP has all of it's eggs in one basket right now and that is not a very good thing in business.

Just my .02

EDIT: took me so long to type that all of my points where made before I even hit post. lol


End of the day its all about the core product getting appropriate resources so that people don't feel the game they are paying subs for is being used to milk the cash cows without ongoing development. I don't think anybody is arguing that ALL of Eves subs money should go to Eve development, just a decent proportion that allows the continuing development of the game for everyone's enjoyment.

But trying to argue that because there are WOD devs and DUST devs that means that resources are not being taken from Eve is a bit flaky argumentation since they obviously are paid salaries on Eve subs since their own products do not yet make money.

Ultimately - if Core Eve gets proper development resources again and we get back to decent expansions and neglected features are properly revisited and upgraded then nobody is going to begrudge a proportion of our subs going to fund new development in other games.

Its all about proportion.


That is the point I was trying to get across. You were able to put it in words better than I was. There are just people that are on both extremes of this argument and they are never going to be happy with the proportions no matter which way they lean. It's the sad hard truth about most of the people I see posting on here.
Darkil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-09-16 18:17:12 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The first few responses to the OP are correct. EVE is the main thing generating income for CCP right now. Eve dies, so does the CCP and all of the spin off projects. So it's in the CCP's interest (whatever you think about businesses) to ensure that Eve is successful.


they're not right in their whining that "omg CCP Is spending money on other things, that means eve is being neglected!!!"



Sigh. Do I really need to type:

"Its all about proportion" one more time?

Any money does not automatically equal too much money. But it is possible to spend too much money on other projects. Calm down, have a cup of tea and try to start at the beginning.


if you seriously think i'm not calm then you really need to stop assuming context into other people's posts. i'm being more sarcastic than anything.

as for proportion.. lol - all these emorage on the forums over CQ, NeX, and Dust/WOD supposedly stealing dev time from eve. and i find a dev post where it is explicitly stated that Dust/WOD stole no devs from EVE, but EVE (For a while) stole devs from Dust/WOD .. and people STILL are trying to claim that CCP is neglecting EVE. ... and people just started repeating the same BS they've been saying for weeks.

yeah... that's "all about proportion". riiiiiiiiight.

TLDR: EVE dev clearly states that WoD/DUST didn't steal resources from EVE. I repost it, people say "no, they did!" - i mock these people.


Neither of you see anything wrong with the dev situation correct? If the answer is yes there is nothing wrong then why are you guys even arguing? Maybe I overlooked something in an earlier post but I can't see where you two are actually disagreeing on something.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#30 - 2011-09-16 18:26:48 UTC
Denidil wrote:
if you seriously think i'm not calm then you really need to stop assuming context into other people's posts. i'm being more sarcastic than anything.


Fine, *shrugs* if swearing and stamping enhances your calm then fair enough.

Quote:
as for proportion.. lol - all these emorage on the forums over CQ, NeX, and Dust/WOD supposedly stealing dev time from eve. and i find a dev post where it is explicitly stated that Dust/WOD stole no devs from EVE, but EVE (For a while) stole devs from Dust/WOD


I'm actually disagreeing with the Dev post as much as anything. I think he oversimplified the argument. The reality is that any current WOD or Dust Dev is funded by the core Eve product and subscriptions from Eve keep CCP fluid. Hence to describe Eve as "borrowing" devs from WOD and Dust is a bit shaky since Eve paid for them! I guess the terminology annoys me in the same way as lending your neighbour your lawnmower and having to "borrow it back".

Quote:
.. and people STILL are trying to claim that CCP is neglecting EVE. ... and people just started repeating the same BS they've been saying for weeks.


I don't really see any counter to the claim that CCP has been neglecting Eve. I'm pretty certain that the grand majority of developers will agree with us that core Eve has been neglected and under-resourced and that is what led to the player dissatisfaction and falling subscriptions this year.

Quote:
yeah... that's "all about proportion". riiiiiiiiight. TLDR: EVE dev clearly states that WoD/DUST didn't steal resources from EVE. I repost it, people say "no, they did!" - i mock these people.


When a 600 person company funded by a subscription-based MMO cannot properly finish any expansion delivered over the past three years to the standard that 200 people managed in 2004 then you know the resources are going somewhere other than the core product. Thats just common sense.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Master Gotama
Black Sky Hipsters
#31 - 2011-09-16 18:42:06 UTC
Denidil wrote:
CCP Fallout wrote:
Baralosus wrote:
Eve development resources have been shifted to focus on Dust514 and World of Darkness. What you are seeing is a slowed down progress because of this. If CCP is able to afford hiring more people to work in the art development aspect, then I'm sure they would be doing that right now. I believe that they cannot afford expanding their staff when they have too much development resources tied up with other games (that which is not currently generating any revenue) and an old game (Eve) that is starting to show signs of age, and possible decline.

But I'm all for putting in more development for Eve. I could care less how they do it as long as they find something that works.


I respectfully point out that you are wrong, sir, and ask that you not listen to skuttlbutt. We do not move EVE devs out of EVE. In fact, when we did Apocrypha, staff from WoD and DUST were moved to EVE. These kinds of things happen quite often, where we may borrow resources from WoD or DUST and use them in EVE.

Additionally, we are a company of 600 people, of which, we have quite a number of resources working on EVE.


thought this should be pointed out more widely.

thanks for the info Fallout!

original post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11056&find=unread


if anything, this points to the fact that they should do this more often. Apocrypha was one of the largest and best expansion in game, not to mention it was the last real content expansion. It gave us wormholes, T3, revamped exploration and massively increased the size of the EVE universe. CCP PLEASE DO THIS AGAIN!!1!!
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#32 - 2011-09-16 18:42:19 UTC
Mai Kusoni wrote:


Perhaps some of us feel that WiS is a significant development and improvement of Eve Online.


lol
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Mai Kusoni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-09-16 19:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Kusoni
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Mai Kusoni wrote:


Perhaps some of us feel that WiS is a significant development and improvement of Eve Online.


lol


Well let's just say I put a helluva lot more faith in CCP than I would in the likes of you or your opinion.Big smile
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-09-16 19:35:05 UTC
Some of you people are way too wrapped up in ccp's internal affairs. You pay to play eve, as it exists today, you are not paying for a say in their business strategy or development plans. At anytime you decide the game is no longer interesting to you, you are free to stop subscribing. They are not spending your subscription money on other games, they are spending their resources as they see fit. When the company I work for can tell me how to spend my pay check I'll agree you have something to say to ccp.
Master Gotama
Black Sky Hipsters
#35 - 2011-09-16 19:47:45 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Some of you people are way too wrapped up in ccp's internal affairs. You pay to play eve, as it exists today, you are not paying for a say in their business strategy or development plans. At anytime you decide the game is no longer interesting to you, you are free to stop subscribing. They are not spending your subscription money on other games, they are spending their resources as they see fit. When the company I work for can tell me how to spend my pay check I'll agree you have something to say to ccp.


that's because some of us have invested thousands of RL $$ and hours into this game. while you may be cool with walking away when the going gets tough, some of us are not disposed to see something we care about, and have invested significant time and money into, just get crapped all over. i know my subscription doesn't entitle me to anything legally, but i'll be damned if i'm just gonna pick my toys and go home when i see adversity approach.

protip: this is how you win RL.
Aldan Romar
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-09-16 19:48:38 UTC
Mai Kusoni wrote:
Perhaps some of us feel that WiS is a significant development and improvement of Eve Online. If CCP intended EVE to suffer, they would not develop DUST. DUST depends on EVE to function.

Indeed...

+1
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#37 - 2011-09-16 19:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
They may not be using Eve Devs but they are using the game. Since Eve is being used as a testing ground for WoD and a marketing aspect for Dust its actually even worse.

Whats sad is Apocrypha used all 3 areas and was considered the best, it seems to me they need to switch the Devs and put Eve devs on WoD/Dust and give us their devs. We all know thats why Apocrypha as so good.

Give us back CCP Shadow and CCP StevieSG thxs.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-09-16 20:01:20 UTC
mkint wrote:
That's even worse. The truth is that our subscriptions created dev resources that are getting flushed down the toilet. The semantics tell us "the resources you players have contributed are being flushed as a rule instead of as an exception to the rule."


QFT
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#39 - 2011-09-16 20:12:02 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeah thats a dodgy argument that doesn't really refute anything people have gotten annoyed about.

CCP has one current income stream and thats Eve Online.
Any resources raised by Eve and spent on other projects represents resource taken from Eve.
Doesn't really matter if they are Dust devs or WOD devs they are paid-for-by-eve Devs.

So I wouldn't really go making triumphant threads about this stuff.




I bet all those old Hættuspil players are still shaking their fists at CCP and demanding to know where their money went and why there was not a Hættuspil 2 released using their money!

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Stella SGP
#40 - 2011-09-16 20:52:25 UTC
Mendolus wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeah thats a dodgy argument that doesn't really refute anything people have gotten annoyed about.

CCP has one current income stream and thats Eve Online.
Any resources raised by Eve and spent on other projects represents resource taken from Eve.
Doesn't really matter if they are Dust devs or WOD devs they are paid-for-by-eve Devs.

So I wouldn't really go making triumphant threads about this stuff.




I bet all those old Hættuspil players are still shaking their fists at CCP and demanding to know where their money went and why there was not a Hættuspil 2 released using their money!


Just in case others don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:
In Hættuspil (or Danger Game) the player takes on the role of a young person and his object is to collect the 25 points needed to win. Collecting points is done by buying items according to each person's interests. The points can be lost as well, for example if the player gets a drug card.

The game was designed and published by the founders of CCP to finance the beginning of their Eve Online project.


http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/32280/hattuspil