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suicide ganking module
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Van Doe
#1 - 2017-01-31 15:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Van Doe
What about a suicide ganking module?

You should not fit any other offensive modules like guns drones webs scrams with it
Probably also no cloak

Dmg depending on explosives amount in your cargo and mass of your ship and target ship mass and velocity.
Preaty much like rocket's do.
And get really close to your target


Probably not useable in highsec.
If you want to do it hard core you also use your pod
Make it high or mid slot to let you fit cargo expanders and rudimentary propulsion and defense.

Would like to see space truckers trap gankers

You have any suggestions how this could work out?

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-01-31 15:14:49 UTC
Van Doe wrote:


Would like to see space truckers trap gankers

You have any suggestions how this could work out?


How about trapping them with friends with a well supported gang instead of designing a new ship?
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-01-31 15:17:59 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
What about a suicide ganking module?

.
.
.

Probably not useable in highsec.

The only place one suicide ganks is in highsec.

So what would be the purpose of this module?

TL:DR No.
Van Doe
#4 - 2017-01-31 15:25:17 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
What about a suicide ganking module?

.
.
.

Probably not useable in highsec.

The only place one suicide ganks is in highsec.

So what would be the purpose of this module?

TL:DR No.

Maybe you could use this in high this should be balanced good.

I was thinking some iterons with full cargo expansion fit.

Your would be forced to keep range on them (you probably won't know if he might go boom on you)
It is slow enough so it would be hard to get in range.
Should make splash dmg.

Can imagine a bunch iterons hot drop om you.

I don't want a new ship I want existing ships to get a alternative use.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#5 - 2017-01-31 15:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Van Doe wrote:
Maybe you could use this in high this should be balanced good.

I was thinking some iterons with full cargo expansion fit.

Your would be forced to keep range on them (you probably won't know if he might go boom on you)
It is slow enough so it would be hard to get in range.
Should make splash dmg.

Can imagine a bunch iterons hot drop om you.

I don't want a new ship I want existing ships to get a alternative use.

Eh, got a bit confused by your use of "suicide ganking", since it is already a defined activity in the game.

Sounds like you just want a form of smartbomb, that destroys your ship on use.

The problem with such a modules is, that we already have smartbombs. So if you make the module too weak, then no one would use it, since why not just use smartbombs, that won't destroy themselves.

However, if you buff the damage too much it makes them OP and everyone will just be trying to drop these on an enemy fleet (Basically why bombers where an issue).

Still think the module won't bring too much to the game and probably not worth pursuing.
Van Doe
#6 - 2017-01-31 15:50:39 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Maybe you could use this in high this should be balanced good.

I was thinking some iterons with full cargo expansion fit.

Your would be forced to keep range on them (you probably won't know if he might go boom on you)
It is slow enough so it would be hard to get in range.
Should make splash dmg.

Can imagine a bunch iterons hot drop om you.

I don't want a new ship I want existing ships to get a alternative use.

Eh, got a bit confused by your use of "suicide ganking", since it is already a defined activity in the game.

Sounds like you just want a form of smartbomb, that destroys your ship on use.

The problem with such a modules is, that we already have smartbombs. So if you make the module too weak, then no one would use it, since why not just use smartbombs, that won't destroy themselves.

However, if you buff the damage too much it makes them OP and everyone will just be trying to drop these on an enemy fleet (Basically why bombers where an issue).

Still think the module won't bring too much to the game and probably not worth pursuing.

Smart bombs is a good comparison.
The difference is you could only use your ship once so you should clearly do more dmg then a smartnomb fit.

The befits would be if a iteron shows up on gate you might not know what he is up to and be forced to stay out of range to be sure you will survive. Clearly if the iteron would nuke a bs this would be overpowered
But if nukes a frig this will be ok if the frig os a close range fit.

This would be a balance issue mostly.
It adds a alternative warfare and add a little but unpredictably.

The question might be if you want to go boom on a frig this might be a cost benefit issue.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Van Doe
#7 - 2017-01-31 16:00:29 UTC
And give amar bonuses.

Istoae

Interstellar terrorism of amar empire

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2017-01-31 16:04:43 UTC
search the forum for ideas before posting

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2017-01-31 16:06:27 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
What about a suicide ganking module?

.
.
.

Probably not useable in highsec.

The only place one suicide ganks is in highsec.

So what would be the purpose of this module?

TL:DR No.



... what are you talking about


you can suicide gank anyplace.

we do it in provi all the time bridge in some bombers to kill a rattle or hulk then stick around to kill as much of their response fleet as we can.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2017-01-31 16:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
There is a reason why "splash damage" and "high-damage Area of Effect" weaponry is not allowed in high-sec.

If you give me something that can nuke other ships in a single explosion (even if that explosion is my own) then I will get a dozen or so people to warp into the undock of a busy station (staggered, of course) and vaporize everything.

Or, I will do this with small gangs and fleets. Warp in. Did. Take everything with me.


The reason why suicide ganking, in its current form, is fine is because success of the ganker is contingent on surviving long enough to do damage.
Your module is a straight "explosive vest" with all the damage is "up front"... meaning that all you need is a good warp in point.
The only way to "balance" this idea for high-sec is to take away the AoE effect... but then that would make it useless for its intended purpose.

For ganking outside of high-sec... same issue. It would devolve into suicide bomber vs suicide bomber.

How did you Veterans start?
Van Doe
#11 - 2017-01-31 16:18:09 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is a reason why "splash damage" and "high-damage Area of Effect" weaponry is not allowed in high-sec.

If you give me something that can nuke other ships in a single explosion (even if that explosion is my own) then I will get a dozen or so people to warp into the undock of a busy station (staggered, of course) and vaporize everything.

Or, I will do this with small gangs and fleets. Warp in. Did. Take everything with me.


The reason why suicide ganking, in its current form, is fine is because success of the ganker is contingent on surviving long enough to do damage.
Your module is a straight "explosive vest" with all the damage is "up front"... meaning that all you need is a good warp in point.
The only way to "balance" this idea for high-sec is to take away the AoE effect... but then that would make it useless for its intended purpose.

For ganking outside of high-sec... same issue. It would devolve into suicide bomber vs suicide bomber.

So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2017-01-31 16:21:45 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is a reason why "splash damage" and "high-damage Area of Effect" weaponry is not allowed in high-sec.

If you give me something that can nuke other ships in a single explosion (even if that explosion is my own) then I will get a dozen or so people to warp into the undock of a busy station (staggered, of course) and vaporize everything.

Or, I will do this with small gangs and fleets. Warp in. Did. Take everything with me.


The reason why suicide ganking, in its current form, is fine is because success of the ganker is contingent on surviving long enough to do damage.
Your module is a straight "explosive vest" with all the damage is "up front"... meaning that all you need is a good warp in point.
The only way to "balance" this idea for high-sec is to take away the AoE effect... but then that would make it useless for its intended purpose.

For ganking outside of high-sec... same issue. It would devolve into suicide bomber vs suicide bomber.

So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.



because you want it based on cargo these things sound like they would just become used for super pipe bombs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Van Doe
#13 - 2017-01-31 16:34:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is a reason why "splash damage" and "high-damage Area of Effect" weaponry is not allowed in high-sec.

If you give me something that can nuke other ships in a single explosion (even if that explosion is my own) then I will get a dozen or so people to warp into the undock of a busy station (staggered, of course) and vaporize everything.

Or, I will do this with small gangs and fleets. Warp in. Did. Take everything with me.


The reason why suicide ganking, in its current form, is fine is because success of the ganker is contingent on surviving long enough to do damage.
Your module is a straight "explosive vest" with all the damage is "up front"... meaning that all you need is a good warp in point.
The only way to "balance" this idea for high-sec is to take away the AoE effect... but then that would make it useless for its intended purpose.

For ganking outside of high-sec... same issue. It would devolve into suicide bomber vs suicide bomber.

So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.



because you want it based on cargo these things sound like they would just become used for super pipe bombs

And what's wrong with pipe bombs?
You would bring cargo expander's/rigs im to combat.
Plus the explosives you would need to buy.
And yes it should scale with cargo space and mass of your ship
All the new ships tat will be in effective combat.
A explosive filled noob ship could come handy.


I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2017-01-31 16:53:44 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is a reason why "splash damage" and "high-damage Area of Effect" weaponry is not allowed in high-sec.

If you give me something that can nuke other ships in a single explosion (even if that explosion is my own) then I will get a dozen or so people to warp into the undock of a busy station (staggered, of course) and vaporize everything.

Or, I will do this with small gangs and fleets. Warp in. Did. Take everything with me.


The reason why suicide ganking, in its current form, is fine is because success of the ganker is contingent on surviving long enough to do damage.
Your module is a straight "explosive vest" with all the damage is "up front"... meaning that all you need is a good warp in point.
The only way to "balance" this idea for high-sec is to take away the AoE effect... but then that would make it useless for its intended purpose.

For ganking outside of high-sec... same issue. It would devolve into suicide bomber vs suicide bomber.

So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.



because you want it based on cargo these things sound like they would just become used for super pipe bombs

And what's wrong with pipe bombs?
You would bring cargo expander's/rigs im to combat.
Plus the explosives you would need to buy.
And yes it should scale with cargo space and mass of your ship
All the new ships tat will be in effective combat.
A explosive filled noob ship could come handy.





lol the second you said scale with ship mass i realized you have not thought this through

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Van Doe
#15 - 2017-01-31 17:24:38 UTC
Why not make ship mass a secondary attribute to scale with?

If you want to sacrifice like 3 motherships to to gank 1 go ahed.

The thing is with more mass ships usually get more expensive.
Ab battle ship has compared a relative low cargo to a iteron but why more mass.

So to balance it out a bit it would make sense to also let mass play its role.

And the explosion radius should go a least 2au.

Just kidding I mean 6 au.

No actually since they would make more damage then smart bombs but only once.
the radius should be relatively small.

But this all is a balancing issue.

The point would bring across that this is no single player weapon and could lead to some creative baits/traps/fleets/whatever.

And I think it would play somehow in the leage of stealth bombers. But less aggressive since your forced to reship.

Also it would could help haulers by making it a bit les predictivle what he is doing.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Van Doe
#16 - 2017-01-31 17:32:53 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
Why not make ship mass a secondary attribute to scale with?

If you want to sacrifice like 3 motherships to to gank 1 go ahed.

The thing is with more mass ships usually get more expensive.
Ab battle ship has compared a relative low cargo to a iteron but why more mass.

So to balance it out a bit it would make sense to also let mass play its role.

And the explosion radius should go a least 2au.

Just kidding I mean 6 au.

No actually since they would make more damage then smart bombs but only once.
the radius should be relatively small.

But this all is a balancing issue.

The point would bring across that this is no single player weapon and could lead to some creative baits/traps/fleets/whatever.

And I think it would play somehow in the leage of stealth bombers. But less aggressive since your forced to reship.

Also it would could help haulers by making it a bit les predictivle what he is doing.

Also I would recommend it to implement it as week as possible and slowly buff it up till you hit the sweat spot

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Van Doe
#17 - 2017-01-31 17:42:52 UTC
Twisted Tfw you load up your titan and hit the wrong key.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2017-01-31 18:30:10 UTC
Quote:
So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.

Explain to me how you stop a ship from warping on top of you.

Nope, bubbles are not an answer unless you know where it will come from ahead of time (because if you put up a bubble too close to your fleet, you make yourself an easier target).
And even if you do know ahead of time, if the range of the bomb is sufficiently large enough it will not matter if you have a bubble or not.

This is why Stealth Bombers and AoE bombs are a HIGHLY contentious issue to Null-sec pilots.


"But Fluffers, if Stealth Bombers can avoid bubbles and AoE bombs, why can't these ships?? What is the difference?"

A Stealth Bomber is trying to survive. Your ship is not.
Stealth Bombers will die against virtually anything that can catch them. Your idea allows for brick fit ships to be the bomber.


Things are a lot easier to coordinate and attack when survival is not encouraged.
Doubly so if it deals just as much, or more, damage than a Stealth Bomber bomb.
And more so if it is cheaper (a bombing SB costs about 25-35 million ISK).

How did you Veterans start?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2017-01-31 19:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
So what's the problem of this explosive vest in null?
You could counter by awareness.

Explain to me how you stop a ship from warping on top of you.

Nope, bubbles are not an answer unless you know where it will come from ahead of time (because if you put up a bubble too close to your fleet, you make yourself an easier target).
And even if you do know ahead of time, if the range of the bomb is sufficiently large enough it will not matter if you have a bubble or not.

This is why Stealth Bombers and AoE bombs are a HIGHLY contentious issue to Null-sec pilots.


"But Fluffers, if Stealth Bombers can avoid bubbles and AoE bombs, why can't these ships?? What is the difference?"

A Stealth Bomber is trying to survive. Your ship is not.
Stealth Bombers will die against virtually anything that can catch them. Your idea allows for brick fit ships to be the bomber.


Things are a lot easier to coordinate and attack when survival is not encouraged.
Doubly so if it deals just as much, or more, damage than a Stealth Bomber bomb.
And more so if it is cheaper (a bombing SB costs about 25-35 million ISK).



Bubbles would simply have 0 effect fit plates a higgs rig and then load up a chimera with these bombs. After that cyno on a cepter. Sure after firing your bomb would be ~1.5b but you could take out a hell of a lot more than that. Or do this same thing to a gang camping your citadel/station undock

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#20 - 2017-01-31 19:23:37 UTC
You are so lost as to what suicide ganking is

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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