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Null Anomalies vs WH - balance!

Author
Shrimp And Grittz
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2017-01-29 09:56:52 UTC
In Null Sec the devs currently promote the idea that more activity nets you more Anomalies in a given system. Why isn't this true for Wormholes? Why are they treated differently when it comes to PVE content?

We all know the current setup in NullSeC: VNI and speed tank afk with drones out.

At least in Wh's the content does provide some user input during the isk making.Roll
Vigo_The_Carpathian
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#2 - 2017-01-29 11:35:17 UTC
There does some to be an imbalance in the whole risk vs. reward system when it comes to NS IMO.


I'd be happy keeping things the way they way they are, if NS lost local and people were limited to the number of warp bubbles that could be anchored in close proximity of the gate. Then it would be balanced.

But I doubt any of that will ever happen.
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-01-29 11:57:58 UTC
Why should ns pve have anything to do with wh pve?

There is no Bob.

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Wallstreet J0urnal
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-01-29 20:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Wallstreet J0urnal
Jack Miton wrote:
Why should ns pve have anything to do with wh pve?


Agree, it should remain to be AFK activities and passive income from various sources. Need more players in Null and what better way to bring more players to Null👍😉

Less PVE and only PVP. Remove Industry and everything pertaining to PVE and leave only Scammers and Greifers to boost EVE Online subscriptions! (PVP would be the third profession)
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#5 - 2017-01-30 04:56:10 UTC
By having the NS system you remove the need for people to leave their System, less targets less activity, and while that would be great for farmers its not a great idea over all.

Half of the fun of PVE is WHs is that every successful run feels like a win. You practically stole the isk from the gankers.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#6 - 2017-01-30 10:30:26 UTC
you can afk vni in sansha shattered wormholes but you wil eventually die
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#7 - 2017-01-30 12:32:31 UTC
Shrimp And Grittz wrote:
In Null Sec the devs currently promote the idea that more activity nets you more Anomalies in a given system.


I would prefer if it was per constalation and not per system. Wouldn't that encourage ratters to roam a bit more?
Same with WHs: If ratting would trigger more anomalies/rats it should be in the linked WHs, not the same one.
Shrimp And Grittz
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2017-01-31 01:00:56 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Shrimp And Grittz wrote:
In Null Sec the devs currently promote the idea that more activity nets you more Anomalies in a given system.


I would prefer if it was per constalation and not per system. Wouldn't that encourage ratters to roam a bit more?
Same with WHs: If ratting would trigger more anomalies/rats it should be in the linked WHs, not the same one.


I Agree, to bring balance the null sec anomalies shouldn't be static for a given system, it should move around constellation which is currently what you'd have to do if your home wormhole is dry.

Or net Wormhole's the activity bonus that null has.
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#9 - 2017-02-03 00:33:06 UTC
This not the place for ns pve discussion.

You cant have wh's regenerate pve sites in the same WH system, because that would be far to OP, the logistics of getting hot dropped and escalated on in ns has a far far far lower barrier to entry than to find one dude in a random wh printing billions of isk an hour.
Jonn Duune
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#10 - 2017-02-06 20:38:00 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
This not the place for ns pve discussion.

You cant have wh's regenerate pve sites in the same WH system, because that would be far to OP, the logistics of getting hot dropped and escalated on in ns has a far far far lower barrier to entry than to find one dude in a random wh printing billions of isk an hour.



Exactly this. Wormhole sites will respawn in a particular region, with no guarantee what system its in. If they just respawned in the same system over and over, I could lock down a wormhole for 2 hours every day, and be 100 bil richer by the end of the month, and an eve trillionaire with little time spent in less than a year.

My name is Jonn Duune, and I wholeheartedly support the message posted above.

P3ps1 Max
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2017-02-09 15:13:22 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
This not the place for ns pve discussion.

You cant have wh's regenerate pve sites in the same WH system, because that would be far to OP, the logistics of getting hot dropped and escalated on in ns has a far far far lower barrier to entry than to find one dude in a random wh printing billions of isk an hour.


Says the "dude" grinding that high sec incursion machine lol -- the true isk machine 1h = 100mill and zero risk. Let's not talk OP and yes that' barrier is quite low in null sec with that one alt watching the pipeline 5 jumps out to announce to fleet members🤔🙄
Stormin
Gone Krabbing
Solyaris Chtonium
#12 - 2017-03-01 18:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Stormin
If you want to farm endless anoms then go live in null. No reason to have the same mechanics in WH space.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#13 - 2017-03-02 06:32:44 UTC
i'd certainly like Ore sites to spawn in my C4 more often......

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Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#14 - 2017-03-02 15:48:06 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Shrimp And Grittz wrote:
In Null Sec the devs currently promote the idea that more activity nets you more Anomalies in a given system.


I would prefer if it was per constalation and not per system. Wouldn't that encourage ratters to roam a bit more?
Same with WHs: If ratting would trigger more anomalies/rats it should be in the linked WHs, not the same one.


It would encourage more clustering. If I had to rat up a constellation to get the ADM maxed, I would want other corps in the other systems helping out.

Or if it was a single corp, the way I would do it is to get a group rat up the index 1 system at a time, safety in numbers and everything. Spreading out across rarely makes more sense than grouping in NS pve.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#15 - 2017-03-02 16:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
GizzyBoy is right, this not the place for nullsec pve discussion. My bad.

I guess most players agree that more anomalies spawning in the same WH system would make Wormholers a lot more richer than they already are. And would be very risk averse because you would just roll'n'rat. But perhaps "WH escalations" could be a thing? You get a list with a chain of WHs and there is a pot of ISK at the end of the rainbow. Or some angry inhabitants that only wait unitl you warp to your WH escalation side and decloak...
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#16 - 2017-03-06 15:33:12 UTC
I'm still for a buff to wormhole income. But I think the spawn mechanics are okay (minus the piling up of 50+ sigs in unused shatterred and c4s and c6s).

I like the idea of the more sites you do at home the less spawn - because you want people to venture out of their wormholes, but its obvious that it makes much more sense to run in HS, LS, and Null for isk. There's a LOT less bears in wormhole space (because the hunters have gotten pretty good at being sneaky) and because you can make a buck elsewhere for less of a headache.

If you want more people in wormhole space as targets - give them something that keeps them in ships pretty easily. If you want to continue the status quo than no buff is necessary. When I started running c4s in 2011 a domi ball (3 domis) would pay for itself in 3 sites (total cost to fit a domi 70-80 mil isk) - now that same domi ball is about 650 mil; if I've got to run 3-4x as many sites in a c4 that's more dangerous. Just food for thought.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#17 - 2017-03-07 12:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Noxisia Arkana wrote:


If you want more people in wormhole space as targets - give them something that keeps them in ships pretty easily.

From my experience it is not an ISK problem. Look at all the selfdestructed WH BS and capitals, it's not a Question of ISK if people fight or not. They don't fight because they simply don't want to. (Or see no point in fighting.) More and/or easier ISK won't change that. All you would get are more players that go for WH ISK, but run from fights and self destruct when you seeded their WH.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#18 - 2017-03-08 15:49:49 UTC
'Self destructed BS & Capitals' - if you rage cage my POS I would rather self destruct than give you a bunch of shiny kill mails. If it's not a good fight why would people come out and fight?

If you've got 5-6 characters evicting a group with 5-10 active members I can see them saying - hey, they don't' have a lot of people lets see if we can push them out. If you've got a corp where they can get 5-8 characters and one dude's triple boxing and you have a 20 man fleet pushing their **** in - I'd also say f you and self destruct.

From personal experience, I've had a corp with 4-5 guys run from a 4-5 man eviction fleet. On the other hand, I've brought in an 7-8 man fleet (nothing fancy) and had the locals push us out with only 3-4 dudes (we had mostly bombers). The point is people are more likely to 'provide content' when you give them the opportunity to win (even if it's an illusion). I'm sick of this space bushido **** where w-space corps pretend that they aren't dropping every online member on a rattle running a c4 site.

We're opportunistic parasites that enjoy the occasional goodfight and get our rocks off on the hunter/prey sneaky ****.

I consider myself PVP oriented, but when there isn't a 'good fight' I don't feel obligated to provide content to people that are bored. Even when I have offered content (i.e. sitting a ship in space) corps that outnumber me don't want to fight off of a wormhole or a highsec. So the risk aversion runs both ways - only idiots constantly take fights they don't think they're going to win.

If you made the isk/hr of c1/2/3 sites at or above L4 (blitzing) or incursions - you'd see an extreme influx of people. Honestly, there's no reason to set up in a low class wormhole unless you like looking for fights or are looking for a new challenge. Isk wise you can make more station trading, supplying mission hubs, blitzing l4 missions, running incursions, hell - even exploring through null in a 40 mil ship.

Plus, if you bring in people that are only going to self destruct ships at a pos by increasing the amount of isk paid out by sites - you're at least cycling more targets into wormhole space; those guys are going to have to run sites to have shiny battleships and you can camp the **** out of them too.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#19 - 2017-03-08 16:08:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Why should ns pve have anything to do with wh pve?



I agree that there needs to be a different metric. However, we also know that there are renters out there bubbling an entire region and ratting in relative safety (new bubble mechanics will help with this).

However, I do think there needs to be something that draws people to wormhole space. Isk is a good motivator. I'd honestly prefer it not be industry that brings people in because PI/Reaction holes are pretty boring from an interaction standpoint. You can work to evict, but evicting someone from a wormhole is about the least fun you can have in eve.