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Suggestion for CSM-inspired requirement to post on forums
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Van Doe
#41 - 2017-01-29 11:08:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?

It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?


Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true!

[/sacarsm]

Come on really?
You can easily counter Bilderberg by aluminum armor plate.
If they really would be anonymous how could it be you know about them?

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#42 - 2017-01-29 11:12:20 UTC
How did I miss that....


Scipio Artelius wrote:

...
Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times.
...


sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. Shocked

Candidate for CSM XII
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#43 - 2017-01-29 11:13:43 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.

Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion.

Borat is claiming the opposite.


Re-read what I posted.
You are making false statements.

Candidate for CSM XII
Lugh Crow-Slave
#44 - 2017-01-29 11:17:12 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.

Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion.

Borat is claiming the opposite.


Re-read what I posted.
You are making false statements.



yeah to be fair he is "helping the little guy" by forcing only the ppl he deemes "well known" to post with their main

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
THX 1138c
SaniFair Holding
#45 - 2017-01-29 11:19:06 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
How did I miss that....


Scipio Artelius wrote:

...
Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times.
...


sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. Shocked

I confirm everything van doe says is 100% true and accurate.
If i like him you all like him
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#46 - 2017-01-29 11:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.

Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion.

Borat is claiming the opposite.


Re-read what I posted.
You are making false statements.

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.

In post 11 in the thread. That is the opposite of what Van Doe said above that:

anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#47 - 2017-01-29 11:20:31 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
How did I miss that....


Scipio Artelius wrote:

...
Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times.
...


sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. Shocked

Nice out of context post. Read the rest of the post, which explains exactly how that statement applies.
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#48 - 2017-01-29 11:31:47 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.



Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.

My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys,
they are

1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.

2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.

Candidate for CSM XII
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#49 - 2017-01-29 11:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.



Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.

My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys,
they are

1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.

2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.


Any yet, none of that addresses the very valid reasons people have for using alts in the forum. So far they've been outlined as:

1. validitiy of an argument based on the in game profession of the character posting it
2. avoid automatic dismissal of arguments simply because of who the character is and not what they post
3. wardec avoidance
4. doxxing, harassment and other out of game consequence avoidance
5. historical record of forum posting
6. who is a persons main that they would be forced to use if they have multiple mains

None of those are apparently valid concerns worth addressing. They've all been ignored and/or dismissed.

What is your criteria of 'well known'?
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#50 - 2017-01-29 11:41:09 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.



Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.

My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys,
they are

1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.

2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.


What is your criteria of 'well known'?


The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less.
Like I said I am just suggesting to apply something that CCP has added this year as a CSM candidates requirements to the forum posters.

Candidate for CSM XII
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#51 - 2017-01-29 11:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Borat Guereen wrote:
[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less.

Which is; and why is it at all relevant to force that criteria on the forum?

As soon as you draw a line somewhere, there are going to be boundary cases. Where is your boundary going to lie in your proposal so we can see the level of effect of it?

Also, you are wrong that CCP has asked CSM candidates to run on their most well known character. They haven't said that at all.
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#52 - 2017-01-29 11:44:45 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less.

Which is?

Sorry, I am not working at CCP. I do not know the details.

Candidate for CSM XII
Lugh Crow-Slave
#53 - 2017-01-29 11:45:52 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.



Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.

My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys,
they are

1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.

2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.


What is your criteria of 'well known'?



what's his criteria for little guy?

as some one else stated earlier i would count R&K as a small group. and then we go back to the 'well known' is it well known by everyone in eve or do well know characters inside communities count? i mean there are A LOT of small groups and solo players that are well known in the FW community the WH community the HS community. These people would be made to run with their best know alts if they went for CSM so do thay also give up the right to post with an alt?


what about the little guy in the large groups?


you still haven't really explained why anyone in eve should not be able to freely voice their ideas and opinions w/o fear of repercussions.

what if some one well know in the veldspare trade knew about a trick in getting veldspar that was unbalanced and gave an advantage to those who know about it. He wants to post a suggestion to fix this exploit but is afraid it would alienate him from his business partners and cost him everything if they found out he let the secret slip

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#54 - 2017-01-29 11:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less.

Which is?

Sorry, I am not working at CCP. I do not know the details.

And yet you suggest that it be used as a criteria for all players in the forum?

Your joking right? Who's going to police this to make sure all characters that post on the forum aren't alts of some 'well known' character?

When does someone suddently become 'well known' enough that they are no longer entitled to post on characters that they've posted on in the forum for years?

What if all of a sudden, they fade in terms of community awareness? When do they get to use alts again if they need to?

How is this actually going to work in practice, while not infrigning on the issues raised above?

If someone is well known, but fears being doxxed for something they want to post in the forum, are they just supposed to not post in the forum?
voetius
Grundrisse
#55 - 2017-01-29 11:51:12 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:


1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.



Just to pick up on this one point. My understanding is that if a CSM posts on an alt that alt will have the CSM tag. I recall this from a post in Market Discussions where a CSM posted on a different character to their "main" and people were asking who this CSM flagged person was.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how practical this proposal is. If you look at people that alt post and divide them into 1. people that are not well known in the community want to hide their identity because they are posting something that might annoy others and 2. the "celebs" (quick shorthand for the rich and famous, CSMs, etc). The second category will always have someone around that they can use to post on their behalf. And if that is true then the proposal can be avoided by group 2 and only affects group 1 who most of the above posters seem to accept that they have a reasonable justification for alt posting.

Personally, I post on my main, in part because I try to keep the conversation polite.
Van Doe
#56 - 2017-01-29 11:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Van Doe
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

You said:

Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.



Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.

My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys,
they are

1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.

2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.


No
The forum is part of the game/eve universe.

Don't interfere with it.
As I said earlier
I need to find out the system this one guy is living in to afk his brain out
You may ask why?
The only reason for this is because I don't like his point of view on afk cloaker.
And I would like to get his tears in my collection.
So what kind of benefit would have someone not anonym over the harasser?
Dose it complicates my ability to mess with him? Yes it dose.
Is this content to figure out who someone is and find his weak spots?
Yes it is.
Should it be easy?
No it should be hard. Since you feel why more satisfied if after a lot of struggle and time invested you achieved your goal.

If your so bad into figure out who someone is
Try make it content by making a homepage to search for a toon and link his relations to other toons.


Don't I mean don't. Don't ever let ccp play the game for you.

Not be sure what someone is really up to is part of the gameplay.
And its on you to figure it out.
You face this everyday if a stranger is in your local of you actually have one.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Van Doe
#57 - 2017-01-29 12:45:23 UTC
For example www.toonrelations.com

Search_Van Doe_

Van Doe

Confirmed alts:
THX 1138c

Unconfirmed alts:
THX 1138b

Possible Location:

90% Jita
5% Rens
5% Dodixie

Profession:
90% Station trader
6% miner
2% pve player
1% hot dropper
1% afk cloaky

Possible agenda
Make make hit drops great again

Confirmed agenda
Speculating with faction items
Trys to raise prices for large armor plates

Good standing to
Afk corp
Neutral to
Neutral corp
Bad standing to
Care Bear corp

Latest activities
Discusses issus in eve forum


If you pull a hp out of your ass you earned my respect.
And maybe safe from me hot drop on your shinny ship
And if im in a good mood you might get a plex donation

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2017-01-29 19:24:16 UTC
Van Doe wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?

It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?


Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true!

[/sacarsm]

Come on really?
You can easily counter Bilderberg by aluminum armor plate.
If they really would be anonymous how could it be you know about them?


Sarcasm.

Quote:
remarks that mean the opposite of what they say, made to criticize someone or something in a way that is amusing to others but annoying to the person criticized

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2017-01-29 19:26:17 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
How did I miss that....


Scipio Artelius wrote:

...
Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times.
...


sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. Shocked


Says the guy who admits to creating an alt so he can try to get on the CSM to manipulate game mechanics for his own agenda....but ironically wants to strip anonymity in commenting from others.

Dude you broke my irony and hypocrisy meters wtih that one post. Well done.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2017-01-29 19:29:48 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:


The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less.
Like I said I am just suggesting to apply something that CCP has added this year as a CSM candidates requirements to the forum posters.


And one of those criteria is "running for the CSM". Ironically, you are running for the CSM with a deliberately created alt for the purpose of protecting your main.

Hmmm...maybe you should be automatically disqualified for the CSM on those grounds.

Post with your main.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online