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Suggestion for CSM-inspired requirement to post on forums
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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#21 - 2017-01-28 23:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
As an additional issue to consider, as a result of forum posts, people occasionally face wardecs in game.

It's happened to me on several occasions and has happened to other regular forum users that I am aware of.

From my perspective, it's perfectly fine. I don't play in highsec anyeway, so who cares.

However, I am certain that if some well known people in game made posts in the forum, they'd also be wardecced for their views.

If they are a highsec player and want an open discussion, or to put a controversial view, then why shouldn't they be able to shield their Corporation and friends from the risk of an extended wardec because of a post they make?
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#22 - 2017-01-28 23:44:03 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
As an additional issue to consider, as a result of forum posts, people occasionally face wardecs in game.

It's happened to me on several occasions and has happened to other regular forum users that I am aware of.

From my perspective, it's perfectly fine. I don't play in highsec anyeway, so who cares.

However, if someone is a highsec player and wants an open discussion, or to put a controversial view, then why shouldn't they be able to shield their Corporation and friends from the risk of an extended wardec because of a post they make?


but the point is that players from smaller groups or solo players that nobody in the community know will always be able to do that, because none of their alts would be well known.

Candidate for CSM XII
Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2017-01-28 23:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
how do you determine when some one is 'well know' enough to force them to post on their main.

what if some one has two alts that become 'well know' before they are linked to each other


what happens if some one is no longer having fun with that toon and just wants a clean break? this is something i did after FCing with BoB and if i still had to play on that toon i would have probably left eve.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#24 - 2017-01-28 23:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
As an additional issue to consider, as a result of forum posts, people occasionally face wardecs in game.

It's happened to me on several occasions and has happened to other regular forum users that I am aware of.

From my perspective, it's perfectly fine. I don't play in highsec anyeway, so who cares.

However, if someone is a highsec player and wants an open discussion, or to put a controversial view, then why shouldn't they be able to shield their Corporation and friends from the risk of an extended wardec because of a post they make?


but the point is that players from smaller groups or solo players that nobody in the community know will always be able to do that, because none of their alts would be well known.


As per my edit:

However, I am certain that if some well known people in game made posts in the forum, they'd also be wardecced for their views.

Why shouldn't everyone have the same rights? Why single out people for discriminatory treatment just because they want to post in the forum?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#25 - 2017-01-28 23:57:36 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Why shouldn't everyone have the same rights? Why single out people for discriminatory treatment just because they want to post in the forum?



because some how in this day and age that IS equality.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2017-01-29 01:11:38 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
I'd like to discuss applying the new requirement that CSM candidates now have to also be applied to forums posters.

If you control a character that is well known in the EVE community, CCP should require you to post here under that identity and not one of an alt or a lesser known character.

It will help fighting against alt-information, and put the true perspectives from each posting players in a better light.


Translation: I want to restrict the ability of people to point out how bad my ideas are.

No, -1.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2017-01-29 01:13:03 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
No.
People should be able to post on whatever character they like.


Of course! agendas are so much easier to hide this way!

I would hope someone running for the CSM would be able to think a bit deeper on an issue than that.


Keep in mind this is someone who is looking to reduce criticism of his agenda, IMO.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2017-01-29 01:14:41 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
No.
People should be able to post on whatever character they like.


Of course! agendas are so much easier to hide this way!

I would hope someone running for the CSM would be able to think a bit deeper on an issue than that.


you kidding read the stuff he has posted in the cyno thread on this paged. the guy is trying to "help the little guy" by screwing him over

as to the ops idea

as some one who has been personally targeted in game because of things i have said on the forums -10000 people should be free to express their ideas no matter what they are even if they fear they may be targeted for those ideas. many of us don't feel we need to hid but some out there do and their ideas are no less valuable

something that really sucks over all as i was interested in his Minarchist space thing too :/


I have been there too.. In fact I created Borat Guereen as an alt .....


Good God...the irony and hypocrisy...it is staggering to behold. Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Borat Guereen
Doomheim
#29 - 2017-01-29 09:37:24 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
No.
People should be able to post on whatever character they like.


Of course! agendas are so much easier to hide this way!

I would hope someone running for the CSM would be able to think a bit deeper on an issue than that.


Keep in mind this is someone who is looking to reduce criticism of his agenda, IMO.


My agenda is clearly stated in my CSM campaign thread.

Why should I care about "reducing the criticism of my agenda". It is all there for everyone to read and judge as they see fit, with ultimately a vote or not.

Candidate for CSM XII
Van Doe
#30 - 2017-01-29 10:09:28 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.

What?

Based on what evidence?

Based on the voting system in soviet Russia

Again what? That doesn't explain anything of relevance to the use of alts to post in a forum about EVE.

Why is that even relevant, even if there is some sort of unexplained logic there?

People can speak out there honest beloved.
Without fearing pressure from there corp or fear maybe a other player might harass you.
You will listen to others and make your decisions on evidence and not on assumption what he might be up to.
Anonymity is a good of extremely high value.
For example I still need to figure out this one pilot blocking me the system he is living in.
Only to afk cloak him to a different server.
The point is you could be a goon and rally to nerv titans down to a frigate.
Without gatting names called by your team mates.
If they post public under the name of goons to nerv the titan to a frigate you might have fan boys supporting it only to gain a good sanding with them.
And vice versa.
The fakt is if anonymity is broken it is way more likely to male decisions based on assumptions.
And les likely on facts.

Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue?
Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys.

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2017-01-29 10:20:43 UTC
Borat Guereen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Borat Guereen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
No.
People should be able to post on whatever character they like.


Of course! agendas are so much easier to hide this way!

I would hope someone running for the CSM would be able to think a bit deeper on an issue than that.


Keep in mind this is someone who is looking to reduce criticism of his agenda, IMO.


My agenda is clearly stated in my CSM campaign thread.

Why should I care about "reducing the criticism of my agenda". It is all there for everyone to read and judge as they see fit, with ultimately a vote or not.



Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lugh Crow-Slave
#32 - 2017-01-29 10:26:33 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say. Roll



but only the people HE thinks should have to post under a main anyone else can still use alts

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#33 - 2017-01-29 10:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Van Doe wrote:
Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue?
Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys.

Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here.

We aren't talking about sharing personal information here.

Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy.

I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia?

The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow.

Quote:
The fakt is if anonymity is broken it is way more likely to male decisions based on assumptions.
And les likely on facts.

Hooray. That's my whole point in this thread. Borat's proposal wants to remove that anonymity.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#34 - 2017-01-29 10:32:29 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue?
Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys.

Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here.

We aren't talking about sharing personal information here.

Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy.

I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia?

The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow.



thats van doe for you.


if it helps van is saying they are against this idea as well and is talking about how important it is to be able to speak anonymously

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2017-01-29 10:51:58 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say. Roll



but only the people HE thinks should have to post under a main anyone else can still use alts


Yeah, I got that.

WTF is the exact determinant of "well known". I get the feeling it is posters Borat doesn't like.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Van Doe
#36 - 2017-01-29 10:55:27 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue?
Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys.

Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here.

We aren't talking about sharing personal information here.

Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy.

I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia?

The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow.

Quote:
The fakt is if anonymity is broken it is way more likely to male decisions based on assumptions.
And les likely on facts.

Hooray. That's my whole point in this thread. Borat's proposal wants to remove that anonymity.

Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#37 - 2017-01-29 10:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Van Doe wrote:
Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?

It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players - or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2017-01-29 11:02:18 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?

It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?


Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true!

[/sacarsm]

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Van Doe
#39 - 2017-01-29 11:03:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Van Doe wrote:
Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions.
You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty.
Even a real life simulator would be true in parts.
And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy.
Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity

And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?

It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?

Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.

Try oppose Saudi goverment openly
What would you think would happen?
Try oppose goon doctrine
What would you think would happen?

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#40 - 2017-01-29 11:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Van Doe wrote:
Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.

Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion.

Borat is claiming the opposite.