These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

[OFFICIAL BROADCAST] Amarr Militia announces Operation Reclaim Auga

Author
edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#21 - 2017-01-27 21:16:01 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
The enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy.



Now that is NOT what we were saying over beers!!!! LOL!
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#22 - 2017-01-27 21:50:44 UTC
When the hell did you have a beer with Admiral Lok'ri, and why wasn't I invited? I am PIE's social event honor killer, I should have been informed so that I might fulfill my duty.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2017-01-27 22:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Merchant Rova wrote:
I, like, totally remember when militia's were relevant.

The pendulum swings, yada yada, etc etc.


They're as relevant as anyone else, to be honest...

Unless you think Spaec Warz in uncolonised space are terribly important?


While I agree with the general sentiment (that the wars we wage have no real effect on the actual people of the cluster barring our crews) it'd be disingenuous to pretend that the Pendulum Wars can be compared to the stakes out in nullsec. Unless of course you've found a way for Pendulum Wars to provide the wealth and resources to build and proliferate Titans and Supercarriers, and so on.

In terms of bloodshed alone you're comparing a bucket to an ocean.

It doesn't matter whether you're in the Pendulum Wars, if you're staking a claim to a nullsec region or just doing mercenary work for those powers, the only effect you really have is on yourself and other capsuleers. This is true. However, there's the question of intent and motivation. You're not going to find many out in null pretending they're "fighting for the Empire" or "fighting for the Tribes" or whatever, while in reality having no impact at all. They fight for something that is actually tangible. Space, wealth, resources and so on.

In the Pendulum War, you're shedding blood over pretense and pretend.

No, to New Eden it's may not be terribly important, but there's no denying it is both more honest and more impactful overall than the damn bloodsport distraction of the militias.

Edit: Yes I know some nullseccers like to pretend they are actual nations and so on. In my experience they're very rare.


I'm not going to pretend that the stakes aren't higher for the participants Miz, but I would say that pretty much the only time that your average nullseccer has ANY impact on the wider cluster is when they come back to the Core territories to be... playful... for whatever reason.

Most Nullseccers are shedding blood for corporate masters who will reap the real benefits of their efforts, driving immense economies that they will play little active part in and for reasons that are almost never as they appear. Most Militia pilots are shedding blood for corporate masters who will reap the real benefits of their efforts, driving immense economies that they will play little active part in and for reasons that are almost never as they appear.

I promise. To the vast majority of sentient life, nullseccers are just militia pilots with a couple of extra noughts.

Outside Capsuleer society neither of them have much real impact. And before someone makes the 'prices are set by nullsec blocs' argument - those prices don't affect the cost of a ton of Ammarian wheat or a kiloliter of Caldari vodka to your average prole. The number of people in the market for a T3 Combat Battlecruiser is very small, when expressed as a percentage of the total population.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#24 - 2017-01-27 22:06:02 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
And Mizhara, just because he happens to shoot the same targets as we do from time to time does not mean that we are allies by any reasonable definition of the word. We go out of our way to avoid it, but the warzone is not a large place. The enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy.


Of course. I am not unsympathetic to your predicament, as there are parallels in every Pendulum War faction. One of the reasons I personally left was because there simply is no will to reject undesirables like that, be they known Sansha associates or in your case Blooders. However, I still do question your priorities.

Is the end you seek truly justifying the means you use to achieve it? The Pendulum War has no real effect on either of our nations, this is well known. At best, it's a place where you can achieve one thing: Setting an example to follow and provide inspiration to the baseliners that actually can affect things in our nations.

So the question then becomes, is setting the example that tolerating, accepting and at times even flying with undesirables - be they Blooder, Sansha, or whatever else - even within your own borders where these people are supposedly an outright enemy of your people truly worth such pitiful gains as imaginary flags on a bloodsport scoreboard?

What would set the greatest example for your people?

Of course, I know you don't have the means to successfully fight them. They'd crush you like an insect in any stand-up engagement simply with sheer numbers. It still begs the question then, if it isn't still worth it in order to keep certain principles rather than abandoning them in favor of an easier path where you're not burdened by principle and honor.

Not that I should really be expecting something like that. It's not like any of the other factions in the Pendulum War has any standards in that regard either, so it's not like you're not clearing the bar set by all the others.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#25 - 2017-01-27 22:10:22 UTC
@Pieter: Pretty much my point, yes. The real differences lie in that nullsec 'militias' tend to benefit personally from the conflicts far more than the pendulum war participants, simply through far better organizational perks and getting (and losing at times) profitable space and assets to exploit. Which makes the stakes, risks and benefits an order of magnitude greater out in null.

To the baseliners? Neither matter much at all. It almost boggles the mind how skillfully and effectively we capsuleers have been cut off from actually mattering sod all to the people we ostensibly claim loyalty to.
edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#26 - 2017-01-27 22:39:40 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
When the hell did you have a beer with Admiral Lok'ri, and why wasn't I invited? I am PIE's social event honor killer, I should have been informed so that I might fulfill my duty.



....awkward....
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#27 - 2017-01-28 00:25:10 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
When the hell did you have a beer with Admiral Lok'ri, and why wasn't I invited? I am PIE's social event honor killer, I should have been informed so that I might fulfill my duty.

To the beat of the rhythm of the night, until the morning light.
Forgetting about the worries on your mind, you can leave them all behind.
To the beat of the rhythm of the night.

Obviously ... -.-
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#28 - 2017-01-28 03:07:05 UTC
I hear through the grapevine that this siege isn't going too well. It's just the opening act I'm sure, but so far the 24th is taking two losses for every win, both ship and ISK wise.

... awkward.
Tsao Aubbes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2017-01-28 03:53:01 UTC
I.. don't like to get involved in politics, but.. that is kinda awkward, if true...

Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.

Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#30 - 2017-01-28 09:19:26 UTC
It's not like the crews in nullsec and the militias are somehow disconnected from the rest of the baseliner population.
Who doesn't know somebody who knew somebody who worked shipside and died?
These years, when you're a baseliner, you can't go a day browsing galnet without seeing a crew recruitment ad or an education package that leads to a crew tour through contract. On top of that, recruiters for both local rat crews and capsuleer crew pools show up in person in a lot of towns to hard-sell.
It's not a dead clone or two floating around in space after a fight that makes the pendulum war a bloodsport.
I don't know if it's different in the State and Empire, but in the Republic and Federation there are a lot of things we can change about how our crews are recruited, managed, and compensated, if we choose to. There are some legal limits to mitigate possible damage to planetary economies, but those laws are themselves more limited in scope than they might seem. And then there are the choices we make in space: whether to fly a Gallente ship or not; whether to take a crew on your frigate or accept the hazards of going without; whether to get in CreoDron's good books or ORE's and negotiate for access to experimental automation upgrades; what engagements to get into; what you're willing to risk lives for.
But of course it's easier to forget anything past your in-pod Neocom exists.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#31 - 2017-01-28 10:46:04 UTC
I am quite sure, that should Aldrith and Admiral Lok'ri be of the opinion that PIE should withdraw from the militia, that persons such as Mizhara would LOUDLY and REPEATEDLY use that as a stick to beat PIE with.

"Lo, the Praetorians have no principles and refuse to fight for Holy Amarr. Truly the golden fleet is nought but paint." etc. etc. etc.


Because, as the IGS shows, LOUDLY and REPEATEDLY beating the proverbial dead horse with a stick, never, ever, gets old.

Why, we've been beating the same dead horses so long, we've ground the bones to dust.

And yet, we still beat them ! With a stick that has surely worn down to a nub by now.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#32 - 2017-01-28 13:09:40 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Posting mission relevant information on a public board...

Good job...

Yeah...

*Snerk*


I suppose it counts double if they actually pull it off, though.

Double WHAT, is the question, kirjuun.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2017-01-28 13:14:39 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
It's not like the crews in nullsec and the militias are somehow disconnected from the rest of the baseliner population.
Who doesn't know somebody who knew somebody who worked shipside and died?
These years, when you're a baseliner, you can't go a day browsing galnet without seeing a crew recruitment ad or an education package that leads to a crew tour through contract. On top of that, recruiters for both local rat crews and capsuleer crew pools show up in person in a lot of towns to hard-sell.
It's not a dead clone or two floating around in space after a fight that makes the pendulum war a bloodsport.
I don't know if it's different in the State and Empire, but in the Republic and Federation there are a lot of things we can change about how our crews are recruited, managed, and compensated, if we choose to. There are some legal limits to mitigate possible damage to planetary economies, but those laws are themselves more limited in scope than they might seem. And then there are the choices we make in space: whether to fly a Gallente ship or not; whether to take a crew on your frigate or accept the hazards of going without; whether to get in CreoDron's good books or ORE's and negotiate for access to experimental automation upgrades; what engagements to get into; what you're willing to risk lives for.
But of course it's easier to forget anything past your in-pod Neocom exists.

The short answer is; The militia is entirely voluntary, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who knows differently, feel free to correct me.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#34 - 2017-01-28 19:35:26 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Her usual schtick.

You're one to talk.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#35 - 2017-01-28 19:40:12 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Her usual schtick.

You're one to talk.


No u.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2017-01-28 20:25:36 UTC
If you had ever had the pleasure of sharing my company, you would know that beer would not have been on the table.

I do hope I get a chance to kill you, Blood Raider.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#37 - 2017-01-28 21:28:21 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
The short answer is; The militia is entirely voluntary, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who knows differently, feel free to correct me.

It's also easier to say that instead of acknowledging that there's complexity in that "voluntary."
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#38 - 2017-01-28 23:03:57 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
The short answer is; The militia is entirely voluntary, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who knows differently, feel free to correct me.

It's also easier to say that instead of acknowledging that there's complexity in that "voluntary."

I could say the exact same for a Federal Navy recruitment contract, Kolodi, and it would mean just as little in terms of meaningful exchange. Of course there's complexity. It's a legal agreement, same as any military or paramilitary organization.

I'll just cut to the chase, since my patience is limited nowadays...

Are you actually looking for a fruitful exchange? Or trying for a cheap shot? It feels like the latter, and I don't appreciate it.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#39 - 2017-01-29 00:49:09 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
The short answer is; The militia is entirely voluntary, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who knows differently, feel free to correct me.

It's also easier to say that instead of acknowledging that there's complexity in that "voluntary."

I could say the exact same for a Federal Navy recruitment contract, Kolodi, and it would mean just as little in terms of meaningful exchange. Of course there's complexity. It's a legal agreement, same as any military or paramilitary organization.

I'll just cut to the chase, since my patience is limited nowadays...

Are you actually looking for a fruitful exchange? Or trying for a cheap shot? It feels like the latter, and I don't appreciate it.


Oh. Sorry, I actually was talking about all crew recruitment: Republic, Fed, State, Empire, pirates, and capsuleers.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#40 - 2017-01-29 01:36:20 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
The short answer is; The militia is entirely voluntary, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who knows differently, feel free to correct me.

It's also easier to say that instead of acknowledging that there's complexity in that "voluntary."

I could say the exact same for a Federal Navy recruitment contract, Kolodi, and it would mean just as little in terms of meaningful exchange. Of course there's complexity. It's a legal agreement, same as any military or paramilitary organization.

I'll just cut to the chase, since my patience is limited nowadays...

Are you actually looking for a fruitful exchange? Or trying for a cheap shot? It feels like the latter, and I don't appreciate it.


Oh. Sorry, I actually was talking about all crew recruitment: Republic, Fed, State, Empire, pirates, and capsuleers.

Ah, that makes more sense. My apologies, then.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Previous page123Next page