Player Features and Ideas Discussion

another way us smaller groups use Cynos is to hit larger groups ratting and mining infrastructure where it hurts. You can do this enough and completely destabilize a group many many times your size. right now we can do this using a cepter. it looks just like any innocent travel ship until the cyno goes up. If we have to have a big THIS IS A CYNO sign every intel ch in the area will light up about it. if there is a ship that can stop or drastically Nerf any cyno they will be trained as an alt by every ratter and miner and toed around with them. If you make cyno inhibs cheap or reusable they will be placed in every belt and anom

you and the op have also show to differing levels an inability to put yourselves in the position of other groups. You seem to think a small group can afford to field a blops whenever they jump. even went so far as to say you didn't even know of doctrine that didn't include using the bridge on field. and the OP can only seem to argue from the point of view of a solo pilot getting dropped on by titan bridged fleets.

I do not think anyone is talking about taking cynos away...

no you are just making them nearly unusable by all but large groups

Please explain to us how larger groups would not exploit the **** out of these changes?

Which is ironic because he is complaining about large groups using cynos.

doouble

Borat Guereen,

You are going off the rails as soon as you base your thinking on, "We should do something against (for) [insert group]." The problem with this kind of thinking in this game is that there is nothing from stopping other groups from seeing that change and then using it to their advantage.

In fact, this is pretty much what is wrong with all of politics. At the risk of drawing the ire of ISD....when you use policy to essentially discriminate between groups you create incentives for groups to manipulate the policy process. This is true in real life and, IMO, it is true in game/on the forums.

Let me give you an example. A while back CCP changed the character creation process. Used to be you'd pick a profession. My very first character was a miner, that is the profession I picked. Being brand new to the game I thought it would be fun to build this huge industrial empire. Then I tried mining for a bit and said, "Wow, this is boring," and took another players advice and created this character. But CCP decided to change that, and part of the change was to eliminate the starting SP and instead double training times. Sounds good right? Well older more established players used this new process to basically train characters quickly and efficiently to suit their needs. They were able to "out do" the newer players. They could furnish their new characters with all the skill books they needed and could much more effectively optimize training plans. CCP did this to give a boost to "new players". But it didn't quite work the way they intended.

Now a change that avoided this pitfall, IMO, was the removal of skill queue limitation. Instead of limiting to 24 hours they removed this arbitrary limit. This way people could set up long term skill plans and not have to worry about. It did not provide a significant, if any, benefit to any sub grouping of players. It was simply a change to make the game better.

The OP has been saying:

Cynos are outdated. But he fails to explain this.
Cynos are unbalanced. Again he fails to explain this.
He almost obstinately refuses to consider that people use cynos in ways he is not considering.

This is not a good position. This is a **** position. It can be summarized as, "I don't like cynos, so lets change them in this arbitrary manner....because I don't like cynos." I think I'd find it more persuasive if he had written, "I don't like cynos, because of sheep ****."

Now you come along and provide a list of things that can be used and even "abused" by larger groups because larger groups are using cynos to dominate others. Again not very persuasive. In fact, you should go with, "I don't like cynos, because of sheep ****."

... what are you talking about blobs were around b4 cynos blobs exist because more ppl = more dps and more total EHP. with out completely upending how eve works at the core blobs will always dominate. But cynos help you deal with groups that often blob by letting you attack them before they are ready

This is part of the challenges on every new suggestion for the game.

I believe there are features that can be designed with an edge toward certain groups because of what they target. For exemple, siphons targeting passive moon income could have boosted the small groups if they had been iterated on properly, because it is more likely that large groups, or small groups backed by large groups own and protect moon POS. So smaller groups not yet at that stage could not be the target themselves of siphons, making siphons a small group friendlier tool, even if large groups could use the same siphons against other larger groups.

For cynos, currently its effect occurs regardless of size of groups. I am interested by ideas that could curtail this a bit. At the moment, the suggestion of forcing the bridging ship to also jump is a direction I believe in, hence my campaign paragraph on this subject, and my support about this issue raised by the OP who seem to share the same issues about cynos that I do. How to make cynos affect the capacity of larger groups to project their forces without affecting smaller groups as much is still a question mark.