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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Aggression Timer
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Beyl Ahashion
Working Community 2
#1 - 2017-01-27 16:01:19 UTC
Please make the "Aggression Timer" only for "aggression".

ECM: Currently ECM triggers the aggression timer. This makes it impossible for industrials and freighters to even use ECM in an effort to escape, since if they use ECM, the aggression timer will prevent them from being able to escape.

Command Bursts: Command bursts also do absolutely no damage to any other ship. Therefore they should not be considered aggression. It is ridiculous being force to sacrifice a command ship that is giving a mining boost to a group of miners when the group is attacked, because it has an aggression timer, and therefore isn’t allowed to dock. Why would the most expensive ship on the field be forced to be sacrificed just because it was giving a mining boost?

Basically nothing that is incapable of causing any damage to an enemy ship should be considered “aggression”.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-01-27 16:07:12 UTC
These thing are setup this way to prevent near invulnerable field manipulation. Imagine an ECM burst frigate that can instantly dock and shut down the field for 10 seconds.
Or command ships that can provide boosts and jump gate.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2017-01-27 16:34:34 UTC
OP.... I do not think you understand what you are asking for here.

Electronic Warfare modules like ECM, Warp Disruptors, Sensor Dampeners, etc are considered "hostile aggression" because they can be used both defensively and offensively. And there is no clear cut, non abusable way to determine a player's intent.

Under you idea... since no EWar actually does damage... I can effectively "lock down" any player I do not like and hold on to them indefinitely.
No escape.
No way out.


As for Command Bursts... yes... the reason you cite (not being able to dock when hostiles are around) is precisely the reason why Command Bursts are given the aggression timer.

You are not allowed to help your friends and then dock up as soon as it becomes inconvient for you.
If you help, you are committed.

Be glad that other people did not get their way and have the Remote Repair mechanics be applied to Command Bursts (see: you inherent any flags of the people you are supporting and will go suspect if you assist someone that is in an engagement and not in your corporation).

How did you Veterans start?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4 - 2017-01-27 16:37:35 UTC
Warp to a safe?

It's only 60s and it's not hard to stay safe in that time.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#5 - 2017-01-27 17:00:13 UTC
Beyl Ahashion wrote:
Please make the "Aggression Timer" only for "aggression".

ECM: Currently ECM triggers the aggression timer. This makes it impossible for industrials and freighters to even use ECM in an effort to escape, since if they use ECM, the aggression timer will prevent them from being able to escape.

Command Bursts: Command bursts also do absolutely no damage to any other ship. Therefore they should not be considered aggression. It is ridiculous being force to sacrifice a command ship that is giving a mining boost to a group of miners when the group is attacked, because it has an aggression timer, and therefore isn’t allowed to dock. Why would the most expensive ship on the field be forced to be sacrificed just because it was giving a mining boost?

Basically nothing that is incapable of causing any damage to an enemy ship should be considered “aggression”.

ECM is a form of targeted electronic warfare that has a negative impact on the target. It should absolutely qualify for an aggression timer.

Command Bursts generate an aggression timer for the same reason that Bastion Modules do: station games. Without the aggression timer for Command Bursts a pilot could undock, activate the burst to buff fleet members in range, and then immediately dock. You'd get fleet boosting on-station with virtual immunity to counter-attack, which CCP expressly wanted to avoid when they removed off-grid boosting.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-01-27 17:07:13 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Warp to a safe?

It's only 60s and it's not hard to stay safe in that time.


Exactly this.

OP, why are you even warping direct to a station in the first place?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2017-01-28 00:45:50 UTC
Another stealth industry thread...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2017-01-28 05:02:10 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

Be glad that other people did not get their way and have the Remote Repair mechanics be applied to Command Bursts (see: you inherent any flags of the people you are supporting and will go suspect if you assist someone that is in an engagement and not in your corporation).


something that should have been added -.- bursts can have a far bigger impact than logi in many situations

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2017-01-29 19:55:06 UTC
Do you plan to remove the criminal flag on these behaviors as well? Because if not I'll get a daredevil, point a freighter, web it, and demand some great sum to release them, all while under CONCORD protection.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Beyl Ahashion
Working Community 2
#10 - 2017-03-03 16:49:22 UTC
I can understand the arguments made against the command bursts, and agree with them. So I withdraw that part of this suggestion.

I can totally understand why warp scram and webbing is considered aggression. I never said that I wanted all ewar to not be considered aggression. I said that I wanted ECM (for instance ECM bursts) to not be considered aggression. Yes, I know that they can be used in war settings, and if you want to prevent docking I couldn't care less. It is preventing the use of the star gates that causes the problem. Players should be able to "escape" and still use a star gate to further their escape.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-03-03 17:15:14 UTC
Acquire magnate. Acquire scout ship.

Probe down non missile using battleships.

Warp in, f##k their cap, their tracking and warp drive.

Laugh as NPCs happily annihilate the defenceless battleship.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2017-03-03 17:29:50 UTC
Beyl Ahashion wrote:
I can understand the arguments made against the command bursts, and agree with them. So I withdraw that part of this suggestion.

I can totally understand why warp scram and webbing is considered aggression. I never said that I wanted all ewar to not be considered aggression. I said that I wanted ECM (for instance ECM bursts) to not be considered aggression. Yes, I know that they can be used in war settings, and if you want to prevent docking I couldn't care less. It is preventing the use of the star gates that causes the problem. Players should be able to "escape" and still use a star gate to further their escape.


Okay, then picture this for me.

I undock in a ship, lock someone up, jam them, and then dock up again before I can even be targeted let alone killed.

I then immediately do it again.

I can not, effectively, jam up as many people as I have jams more or less indefinitely because as soon as I am in any danger what so ever I dock up immediately. This is, incidentally, not just idle conjecture. This is literally what Logistics looked like for High Sec wars before they gave Logistics an aggression timer.

The same problem exists for Stargates, just to a lesser extent. If you need to jam someone to run then run to a safe and then bounce back to gate as soon as the timer goes away.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2017-03-03 21:06:37 UTC
Beyl Ahashion wrote:
I can understand the arguments made against the command bursts, and agree with them. So I withdraw that part of this suggestion.

I can totally understand why warp scram and webbing is considered aggression. I never said that I wanted all ewar to not be considered aggression. I said that I wanted ECM (for instance ECM bursts) to not be considered aggression. Yes, I know that they can be used in war settings, and if you want to prevent docking I couldn't care less. It is preventing the use of the star gates that causes the problem. Players should be able to "escape" and still use a star gate to further their escape.



ECM someone in a mission. Laugh.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2017-03-04 11:14:58 UTC
Beyl Ahashion wrote:
I can understand the arguments made against the command bursts, and agree with them. So I withdraw that part of this suggestion.

I can totally understand why warp scram and webbing is considered aggression. I never said that I wanted all ewar to not be considered aggression. I said that I wanted ECM (for instance ECM bursts) to not be considered aggression. Yes, I know that they can be used in war settings, and if you want to prevent docking I couldn't care less. It is preventing the use of the star gates that causes the problem. Players should be able to "escape" and still use a star gate to further their escape.



First of all, is it still a CONCORDable offense to use ECM on an illegal target? If so, your idea won't be of much use as industrials have poor scan res and ganks are usually fast. ECM bursts will also be useless as CONCORD will just clobber you if you hit anything that isn't a legal target. If it doesn't trigger a criminal flag, I can just run around ice belts in a Falcon jamming everyone who mines ice and demand money to stop, all while CONCORD protects me.

Besides, you can still escape with ECM. You can just warp off, you don't need to jump the gate. Warp to a safe and most gankers won't follow.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!