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Punisher Greatness
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#1 - 2017-01-20 19:18:50 UTC
Atm due to the lack of a third midslot the punisher lags in combat situations. And though CCP gave the punisher another low in exchange for the high it never added it to the mid.

I propose that the punisher gets its midslot "web" but in a different style. A drone. The electronic warfare drones are the most underused area of the drone world and this includes the webifier drone series. Atm the punisher has no drone bay but a 10m3 bay and a 5m3 bandwidth bonused only to a single light web drone wouldnt add more dps if used for a dps drone and would make the webbing function of the punisher something that could be taken out by destroying the drone itself. And because of the limitations of the drone itself, poor hp, and range limitations on activation due to speed issues and engagement envelopes it wouldnt make the punisher instantly OP.

I suggest the 10m3 drone bay, and 5m3 bandwidth along with TWO bonuses for the drone itself. Half based on the amarr frigate skill starting at L3 only like the old command skills did, and the other half with drone interfacing, again starting at L3. This means that alphas wouldnt ever get the full benefit of the drones and the drone interfacing skill is a long train to perfect being a full month to train itself. In the end the web bonus would only take the drone to 20-40% web. Less than an ordinary webber but enough to actually change a fight yet vulnerable enough to be destroyed as well.

Right now the Warrior SW-300 has 25 shield HP, 50 armor HP and 60 structure HPs. A single drone only gives you 5% web with a range of 5kms. By giving it role bonuses to increase that the raw hps and the web amount to the suggested ranges it makes it a formidable weapon in the right hands but doesnt make the entire ship to OP.

So amarr frigate L3, 4 and 5 could give a 10% bonus to web drone hp, and drone interfacing L3, 4 and 5 would double the web bonus with each level so L3 would be 10%, L4 would be 20% and L5 would be 40%.




I would also suggest other such fits that would incorporate other such underused drones and drone types. Mostly the frigates or cruisers that are NOT the T2 variants but where the T2 variants do gain the respective module bonuses as a way to continue the continuity of the pathway while ensuring that the T1 versions are vulnerable due to the drone issue.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2017-01-20 20:20:22 UTC
punisher bad solo yes but good fleet

works well with tackle and frig logi in fleet

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2017-01-20 20:25:37 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
And though CCP gave the punisher another low in exchange for the high it never added it to the mid.


Look again...the punisher has more slots than other frigates.

As for the drone idea. No.

The tormentor is a laser boat with a web slot and a small drone bay. Why would the punisher need to do the exact same job as the tormentor?

Think of the punisher as a pve boat, a mini omen or for gang work. In those areas it excels.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2017-01-20 20:37:07 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
And though CCP gave the punisher another low in exchange for the high it never added it to the mid.


Look again...the punisher has more slots than other frigates.

As for the drone idea. No.

The tormentor is a laser boat with a web slot and a small drone bay. Why would the punisher need to do the exact same job as the tormentor?

Think of the punisher as a pve boat, a mini omen or for gang work. In those areas it excels.


Thats not the argument entirely and Id say you missed the plot on this one. Its not meant to be a drone boat or even close but to give the semblance of a third mid slot without the actual slot itself with the trade off of the ability to destroy said "midslot" through dps application. Which would allow it usage as a solo ship with limited range and functionality moreso than the brick baiting nonracial damage/weapon type fits it currently must employ to even be remotely useful.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2017-01-20 20:50:27 UTC
not everything needs to be a solo ship

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#6 - 2017-01-20 20:56:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not everything needs to be a solo ship

Why?

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-01-20 20:58:43 UTC
because things stay balanced better when they are built in a way with a particular role in mind. if everything can do everything you will find ppl only fly one or two ships

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#8 - 2017-01-20 21:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
because things stay balanced better when they are built in a way with a particular role in mind. if everything can do everything you will find ppl only fly one or two ships

Yet the punisher is the amarrian racial fighter ship and has been since the onset of eve. Its lack of a third midslot wasnt apparent or a worthwhile issue for a long time due to lasers being a very OP weapons system. With the rebalance it is second last to the now defunct rifter while the two still remain the primary front line fighters of each race which have been superseded but drone boats and missiles in the frigate category; tormentor and breacher respectively. Allowing it to be shoehorned into a fleet or pve setup or niche nonracial roles to get the best setup. Its not about making them great again but about making them useful using an entirely different setup. One that CCP hasnt used before. Ewar and utility drones are often unused or only the ECM drones get a lot of air time. Using these drone groups through bonused hulls, either through their racial T2 equivalent lines, or as stand alone hulls gives an entirely different balance option to CCP. One with its own instant drawbacks; drones die in fires due to lack of ehp. Without messing with slots, PG or CPU. It also showcases the T2 Omega variants for those Alphas while allowing intriguing and interesting solo or small gang useage through smart management of drones to enable those players with tactical brains to overcome through adapt or die mentalities.


What I suggest doesnt make the punisher an instant solo pwnmobile, not even by a long shot, but does give it an advantage in such circumstances without gimping it too hard by juggling slots or other bonuses and making balancing a much easier issue.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2017-01-20 21:50:38 UTC
there was no "sheohorning" the punisher has always been a strong fleet ship and is still one of the strongest fleet frigates

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2017-01-20 22:43:09 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not everything needs to be a solo ship


What? Are you saying I should not try to solo in a Bantam then?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#11 - 2017-01-21 00:07:20 UTC
Just because you stick your hands over your ears and go 'la la la' doesn't mean the punisher is a one trick pony.

Want a solo laser boat, get a tormentor. Doubt your gonna get a punisher with a ****** up web drone bonus just so you can do what the tormentor does already.

Use the right tool for the job.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2017-01-21 10:24:54 UTC
That makes my cutting laser boat very sad and Sansha Kuvakei very angry.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#13 - 2017-01-21 16:40:16 UTC
One does not use a hammer to tighten a bolt, and one does not use a wrench to drive a nail. Such is the way of things in life and I for one am glad that CCP views EvE the same way. If all ships could do all things equally well then we would have a very boring game.