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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Standup Science Service Modules
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Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#1 - 2017-01-18 13:56:41 UTC
When engineering complexes were released was there any reason the developers gave for breaking the paradigm of grouping the ME/TE research and the Copy/Invent services? At first I was quite confused as to why the Copy service was removed from the invention module, but having worked with the new complexes for a bit now I am beginning to wonder why copying wasn't made an entirely separate service with appropriate fuel cost. Is anyone else feeling like they are employing lots of redundancy in their smaller structures with the way science service modules are structured? I find it amazing that we got 64 medium rigs, and 34 large rigs, and yet only 2 science service modules... must have been two separate design teams working on services vs rigs.

Basically, can we split the copying service from the standup research lab CCP?
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2017-01-18 17:28:49 UTC
Why? Fuel cost will be the same whether the service module is me/te/copy or only copy. If you don't need the me/te functionality - don't use it!

Personally I find the copy/invention pairing in the design lab a lot more useful - which is probably why CCP split them up!
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#3 - 2017-01-18 19:21:34 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Personally I find the copy/invention pairing in the design lab a lot more useful - which is probably why CCP split them up!


I don't think I understand what you are saying. Are you saying CCP split the old paradigm so that it would be less convenient? Do you want the copy back together with the invention lab? The fuel cost wouldn't be the same because it would/should need to be scaled down. I honestly don't know how copying falls into either "Research" or "Design", but if it had to be one or the other I agree it should go back to the "Design" service module. But honestly I don't see a downside to making it a separate service module.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2017-01-18 19:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
The old paradigm is NPC stations with a Laboratory have all 4 things possible in the same station. NPC stations are the basis for the module, not the utterly useless POS modules.

The downsides are more fuel waste for no good reason whatsoever.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#5 - 2017-01-19 07:02:57 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The old paradigm is NPC stations with a Laboratory have all 4 things possible in the same station. NPC stations are the basis for the module, not the utterly useless POS modules.


If NPC stations are the basis for the services, then why was invention split from it? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the current science services make any practical sense or are really just arbitrary in which case the devs should probably re-look at them.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2017-01-19 07:23:46 UTC
I would say arbitrary, after all, Citadels are a mixture of stations and POS and by the looks of it, a bad mixture. They should indeed look at that stuff and put everything into one module. Upwell structures are cluttered and crappy enough as they are, we don't need even more unnecessary, unjustified clutter just for the sake of it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-01-20 11:34:47 UTC
the reason all the customization are in rigs is to encourage you to specialize the structure as well as give you benefits of getting larger complexes.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2017-01-20 11:36:28 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I would say arbitrary, after all, Citadels are a mixture of stations and POS and by the looks of it, a bad mixture. They should indeed look at that stuff and put everything into one module. Upwell structures are cluttered and crappy enough as they are, we don't need even more unnecessary, unjustified clutter just for the sake of it.



citadels are not meant to be a mix of station and POS people just some how got that into their heads. Citadels are for asset storage and security. industry complexes are for manufacturing (and until the science structure is out science as well).

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2017-01-20 14:19:16 UTC
What has the one to do with the other? When I talk about citadels, I mean all upwell structures, not just citadels. POS/Stations could do all of the industry things before and have always been storage space.
I also doubt that CCP will introduce a dedicated science structure. Taking into consideration that EC already have science bonuses (Astrahus et al did not have any industry bonuses upon introduction of the EC), that would mean that CCP had to give these ScSt either completely overpowered bonuses or take away science bonuses from the EC. That would sit very badly with all the people who have invested in EC with science services, create a load of inconsistency with running science jobs when bonuses or services get taken away as well as create a fabulous power creep.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2017-01-20 14:31:35 UTC
Well then yes all the new structures will be intended that by the end most pos functions will be filed.


CCP said the EC was only getting those bonus temporarily so they did not need to add in the science one as soon another thing you will see nerfed is the reprocessing rigs once the drilling platform is added.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#11 - 2017-01-20 17:54:39 UTC
Research is something you do once - a project. Copying and invention are ongoing activities - operations. I want the functions I need for my day to day production in one place. The design lab gives me that. Combining copying with ME/TE means I will need two service modules to replace 1 lab. That would also be true if they were separate service modules.

For my business, it's a step backward but my POS still works so I won't need to worry about it for a while.