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New type of tackle--Mass tackle.

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Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-01-17 02:08:06 UTC
I think there should be a new type of e-war, or, tackle mechanic added.

Eve is a risk vs reward kind of thing, right, every ship has its counter.

Well, there are a lot of ships around that have very high agility, and it is a wonderful thing... but .. i think that it needs to change.

So, i would propose a new type of tackle, that adds mass to a target. Nothing else--just adds mass. The purpose, would be that it would throw off align times, and allow the execution of better slingshot tackles.

Mass tackle would also allow a person to better 'slingshot' a kite ship, making it so that the kite ship didnt have the agility to escape every time.

The exact mechanics of it i dont know, but i would like to see a 24k range... and maybe that's with heat, and falloff... but at a minimum, a 10k optimal.

The mass addition should be some percentage of your ships mass, or their ships mass. So, when you use AB/MWD the mod is more effective. In this way, a BS could add a TON of mass to a tackle frigate. A frigate could add a good portion to another frigate... say, 20%? 20% seems like a good starting point for the mod if it uses your mass.

So, a mod for adding mass to target ship, as a form of countering agility/align time.
24k range, minimum of 10k optimal.
adds either 20% of your mass to the ship, or gives them 60% more of their OWN mass (so oversized props and mwds cant turn, but shut them off and the effect is minimal)
should be a HIGH slot, and use a LOT of cap... like .. prop mod amounts of cap.

I would say i want a null-sec bubble (dictor style) like this too, launching it would give all ships 100% more mass for 1 minute... but this may be op for campers catching interceptors. however, it WOULD give them a solid counter to them as well--a thing they dont have.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2017-01-17 03:18:36 UTC
this sounds broken particularly if it has such a long range and adds a portion of YOUR ships mass to the target. a bubble one could be fun but i would rather they just add some sort of stasis bubble

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2017-01-17 03:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You have essentially created way to create a nigh inescapable gate camp when combined with a Warp Disruption "Bubble."

How did you Veterans start?
Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-01-17 04:40:16 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
You have essentially created way to create a nigh inescapable gate camp when combined with a Warp Disruption "Bubble."


Only if there were a bubble for of it, and i'm not sure there should be.

Even if the bubble were cranked down to 50% mass addition, that would mean that interceptors could still get through most camps (they would be in war in 3 seconds, rather than 2), unless there was a super insta locker. even then, one warp stab and they're gone.

Right now there's no counter to them, at all. it's 100% risk free travel. Eve isnt about that, shouldnt be about that. There needs to be some kind of counter.

and as far as the mod goes, 10k range, and 24 with heat and falloff, wouldnt be too bad. Not if it was 20% or so, and used a lot of cap. 20% less agility on most kite ships isnt going to break them, but it gives a type of counter that doesnt exist right now.

it would also, if it was based on your ships mass and not theirs, give a pvp use to higgs rigs... you tackle the agile things.

a new game mechanic.
Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-01-17 04:41:01 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
this sounds broken particularly if it has such a long range and adds a portion of YOUR ships mass to the target. a bubble one could be fun but i would rather they just add some sort of stasis bubble


a stasis bubble would do nothing to combat interceptors in null.
Shu t'Me
#6 - 2017-01-17 05:01:14 UTC
Code Redd wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
this sounds broken particularly if it has such a long range and adds a portion of YOUR ships mass to the target. a bubble one could be fun but i would rather they just add some sort of stasis bubble


a stasis bubble would do nothing to combat interceptors in null.

Why do ceptors need a nerf? A proper travel fit ceptor can't do much else. If it's not travel fit it dies like anything else. If you're getting a lot of ceptors through your space, try some smartbombing battleships.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-01-17 12:06:05 UTC
Code Redd wrote:


Right now there's no counter to them, at all.



tell that to all the cepters lost in tama from smart bombs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mala Zvitorepka
Karthen-Woight
#8 - 2017-01-17 13:30:33 UTC
I don't like this agility idea. Proper gatecamps catch just about everything anyway. Why make life easier for them?
If anything, I would rather see bubbles nerfed to have just a point or two, including dictor and HIC (when overlapping, just the strongest works - not cumulative), so every ship can escape them when fit with WCS.
There could be more bubbles though - web, jam, neut, damage, paint, damp, whatever. Ceptors and like would then get all bubble immunity to have their role bonus still relevant.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9 - 2017-01-17 15:14:24 UTC
Code Redd wrote:
Right now there's no counter to them, at all. it's 100% risk free travel. Eve isnt about that, shouldnt be about that. There needs to be some kind of counter.


You mean smartbombs?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2017-01-18 02:31:07 UTC
Standard rule of unintended use. Bumping is now insane.
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2017-01-18 21:25:17 UTC
No opinion on your idea but I think I can describe it in a simpler way. You want a ship to ship tractor beam that forces the tackled ship to drag the tackling ship which is effectively the same as adding mass. The advantage over webbers is that it doesn't reduce the maximum speed of the tackled ship(which makes reaching the warp threshold easier for the tackled ship). The disadvantage under scrams/points is that they will reach warp threshold eventually. A sort of in-between proposition.

I hope that is helpful to you.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#12 - 2017-01-19 06:00:23 UTC
First off I can't see an interdictor style bubble for this ever coming into being with this ability, and while a stand alone module that does this is intriguing, It has the potential of being broken if given too much power, and otherwise being mostly worthless. I'm not sure if there could be a middle ground that could work. Also, rather than mass, I think it would be much more attractive if a module just plainly reduced a ships agility rather than worrying about mass.

A couple things you have to be aware of for an ability that manipulates mass like this though is that it will be used by those who use Bumping mechanics for additional effects, and may be used for helping to seal off wormhole entrances, since both of those mechanics are heavily dependent upon ship mass.

A better idea may be to add an agility incumberment to target painters? It might make them more attractive and useful if they can be used to change agility along with signature radius, and then be scripted for one or the other.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2017-01-19 19:03:37 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
You have essentially created way to create a nigh inescapable gate camp when combined with a Warp Disruption "Bubble."


It is an interesting concept. What if you added a spool up time, 5 to 10 seconds or something?
Cade Windstalker
#14 - 2017-01-19 20:19:16 UTC
Your basic premise is flawed. You literally just say "I think I should be able to mess with the agility of enemy ships" but don't provide any reason why this should be done, no justification for the changes, and no effect that you hope to achieve here or evidence that this needs changing.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2017-01-19 21:06:52 UTC
magnetic lead missiles. do no damage on impact but add to the ships mass
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#16 - 2017-01-20 06:51:04 UTC
Code Redd wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
You have essentially created way to create a nigh inescapable gate camp when combined with a Warp Disruption "Bubble."


Only if there were a bubble for of it, and i'm not sure there should be.

Even if the bubble were cranked down to 50% mass addition, that would mean that interceptors could still get through most camps (they would be in war in 3 seconds, rather than 2), unless there was a super insta locker. even then, one warp stab and they're gone.

Right now there's no counter to them, at all. it's 100% risk free travel. Eve isnt about that, shouldnt be about that. There needs to be some kind of counter.

and as far as the mod goes, 10k range, and 24 with heat and falloff, wouldnt be too bad. Not if it was 20% or so, and used a lot of cap. 20% less agility on most kite ships isnt going to break them, but it gives a type of counter that doesnt exist right now.

it would also, if it was based on your ships mass and not theirs, give a pvp use to higgs rigs... you tackle the agile things.

a new game mechanic.

The thing about interceptors being "risk-free" travel is that same ability (and the T3C version of it) allows them to provide some level of risk to complacent miners in those dead-end systems with 999999999 bubbles on the gates.

A signature :o
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2017-01-20 08:12:33 UTC
Would this be abused in wormholes? My initial thought is yes...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#18 - 2017-01-20 09:08:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Would this be abused in wormholes? My initial thought is yes...



definitely use this combined with a higs orca or simply on a chimera (depending on hole) and you would be flash rolling holes

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble