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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Do you want isk sinks? Let me give you isk sinks.
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Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#1 - 2012-01-19 01:28:45 UTC
CCP could auction off limited quantities of new ships or items for ISK. That isk would be taken from the game.

Imagine for instance what would happen if once a year a new Apocalypse Imperial Issue were to be auctioned by CCP. It is not unreasonable to imagine it fetching ~100B isk or somewhat over the cost of a titan. Now do that for the other 3 factions and that's 400B isk/year leaving the Eve economy.

Of course new availability of that particular ship would leave the current owner(s) of one unhappy so make an Abaddon Imperial Issue. Then a lesser improved Abaddon Navy Issue could be auctioned off once a month. If it fetched say 8B that's another 400B isk/year leaving the economy if repeated for the other factions.

Extend the idea to smaller hulls. One new faction battlecruiser of each race auctioned off each week. One new faction cruiser or frigate of each race auctioned off each day. Say those cruisers fetched 200M isk each that'd be another 300B isk/year being sunk.

And those cheaper hulls might even get used.

Of course the ship types mentioned are mere suggestions but I think they are good starting points. This could be extended to new items as well superseding current officer items. Give them ridiculous stats even. It would never be game breaking due to the extremely limited availability of the ships and also the gank magnet they'd be.

This proposal would create a self-regulating system since prices would fluctuate according to the disposable isk available therefore adding an efficient way to remove excess currency from the game. It would also give another end-game goal to older players besides flying super capitals while at the same time adding goals achievable by newer players.

Do it CCP. Never again hear another player complaining about isk sinks.
Nisa Darksoul
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-01-19 03:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nisa Darksoul
This idea is a bad idea.


Well, not the idea of HAVING an isk sink, that idea is a good idea.

The issue with your idea is that it sinks isk by taking ship production out of the hands of the players. ISK sinks should be created through taxes and inherent costs of running things in eve, not by giving people shiny ships.
ShipToaster
#3 - 2012-01-19 04:05:57 UTC
Another problem is that even this is a trivial ISK sink compared to the amount of ISK being created every day.

.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#4 - 2012-01-19 04:14:14 UTC
Nisa Darksoul wrote:
This idea is a bad idea.


Well, not the idea of HAVING an isk sink, that idea is a good idea.

The issue with your idea is that it sinks isk by taking ship production out of the hands of the players. ISK sinks should be created through taxes and inherent costs of running things in eve, not by giving people shiny ships.


I don't think the idea of an Auction for a ship is bad. Faction ships all come from NPCs anyway. Sure, maybe someone has to run missions to aquire them; but they come from NPCs. When you spend ISK and LP in a LP store; it's not going to another player.

If CCP decided to create a special issue Faction ship, and auction it through the in-game faction, with ISK going to that faction; then I think that would be perfectly acceptable.

On the other hand, we have the Alliance Tournament unique ships, which are completely rediculous; where an Alliance essentially gets handed a gold mastercard in the form of a BPC, with a virtually unlimited line of credit.

Ever see one of these ships?

Of course not. At least most every person aside from the buyer doesn't. It sinks ISK right into the hands of the Alliance from the rest of the playerbase; and gives a few people toys that look pretty in thier hangars. Almost nobody is stupid enough to fly something worth 29-50 billion ISK.

I think I saw a killmail for an Adrestia once.


tl;dr: Why the heck would anyone want to waste time putting something in the game that only a handful of players will ever see. I think the Alliance Tournament rewards are cool but stupid.. How do you think I'd feel about this?

This isn't 40 ships potentially released on the population of EVE; it's just 1 from each faction, to whoever is rediculously wealthy enough to afford one. No manufacturing required. At least the Tournament ships have that.
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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#5 - 2012-01-19 04:14:33 UTC
Nisa Darksoul wrote:
This idea is a bad idea.


Well, not the idea of HAVING an isk sink, that idea is a good idea.

The issue with your idea is that it sinks isk by taking ship production out of the hands of the players. ISK sinks should be created through taxes and inherent costs of running things in eve, not by giving people shiny ships.

Not so much. These are ships added from the ATs (which also happen once a year... hmmm) and cannot be built.

Also, 5 ships a year is a drop in the bucket compared to current construction levels.
Borg Stoneson
SWARTA
#6 - 2012-01-19 06:36:05 UTC
Stealth buff the Sansha's in incursions, watch as people lose billions in faction BS's/t3's again.
Harder Sansha's = more time needed to run the site = less ISK/hour.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#7 - 2012-01-19 12:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Nisa Darksoul wrote:
The issue with your idea is that it sinks isk by taking ship production out of the hands of the players.


Are you dense? We're talking about a ridiculously tiny number of ships.
Le Thanh Ton
Kick B0rt
#8 - 2012-01-20 11:59:16 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
CCP could auction off limited quantities of new ships or items for ISK. That isk would be taken from the game.


What may make more sense is that the BPC for a faction ship is like a car model - the 2008 version is slightly different from the 2011 model.

So when you get BPC this year (2012), the BPC will make a ship with stats x, y, z - but when you get the BPC next year you will get subtly different stats.

These year-model ships would then become collectors items over time as well as allowing slight variations depending on the year in which you ship was manufactured.

To get 'back-issue' BPCs from loyalty point stores would cost much more isk than the current issue (to the point where most people wouldn't unless they want to collect a particular model)
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#9 - 2012-01-20 12:26:00 UTC
I agree entirely with you except that making back issues available from LP stores would completely negate the point of the auction system.
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-20 15:46:25 UTC
Le Thanh Ton wrote:
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
CCP could auction off limited quantities of new ships or items for ISK. That isk would be taken from the game.


What may make more sense is that the BPC for a faction ship is like a car model - the 2008 version is slightly different from the 2011 model.

So when you get BPC this year (2012), the BPC will make a ship with stats x, y, z - but when you get the BPC next year you will get subtly different stats.

These year-model ships would then become collectors items over time as well as allowing slight variations depending on the year in which you ship was manufactured.

To get 'back-issue' BPCs from loyalty point stores would cost much more isk than the current issue (to the point where most people wouldn't unless they want to collect a particular model)


This is a much better idea than the OPs idea. Its a bit impractical maybe, because even minor changes to ship stats can turn into fairly big changes to pvp balance, or of course if it makes no real difference, theres no real point.

So, yeah, its not a great idea, but its a lot better than the OPs idea which is comedy poor.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#11 - 2012-01-20 15:58:28 UTC
Valea Silpha wrote:

So, yeah, its not a great idea, but its a lot better than the OPs idea which is comedy poor.

My dear lady let me tell you that what is comedy poor is your trolling skill. Assuming of course you're trolling because no one has cognitive capability and reading comprehension that poor.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#12 - 2012-01-20 17:38:51 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Valea Silpha wrote:

So, yeah, its not a great idea, but its a lot better than the OPs idea which is comedy poor.

My dear lady let me tell you that what is comedy poor is your trolling skill. Assuming of course you're trolling because no one has cognitive capability and reading comprehension that poor.

To be fair she has a point.

400b is not a particularly large ISK sink. Not worth creating a new auction mechanic for anyway, which leaves either increasing the value of the ships or increasing their number. The problem is, how much would people pay? And if you increase the number, you decrease their value and they cease to become rare items of interest.

I don't believe people would pay enough to create meaningful ISK sink. Not when that "meaningful ISK sink" has to come from four people. I mean, seriously, four people each year donating enough ISK to have a noticeable impact on the economy? In return for a rare item they probably won't use?

Anyway, I believe CCP actually hire a few economists, so when it comes to ISK sinks and the state of the economy I'd rather just leave it to them. The in game economy seems stable enough to me, at least as far as items and ships are concerned. Plex price varies a bit but let's be honest, it always has. An increase in price can probably be put down to a larger demographic being capable of paying for them (read: high sec bears now have incursions), but the increase isn't that extreme.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#13 - 2012-01-20 17:48:51 UTC
Simi, thanks for the constructive input.

I do agree that 400b itself is not the end-all solution and even mentioned in my OP other options that aggregate to it would take to the 2-3 T isk.

However this idea is but a germ which I believe can bear very good fruit. I don't expect anything to be implemented as I outlined.

I'm quite confident that the spirit behind it is pretty solid though. If it were to be extended to a new line of ships (perhaps pirates, perhaps a new tier, or whatever) and new items (from deadspace to beyond officer equivalent) then you could make as big of a sink as you wanted.

They key being limited numerical availability and introduction through auction with the isk being removed from the game.

This could go from frigate class hulls and fittings up to capital sized. There are many opportunities. It could also be a way to introduce the Jove faction in the game. Say a Jove rogue tech ran away from his home and set up camp in a nice station not far from the Citadel and is selling Jove tech to the highest bidder. Those would be extremely desirable items for collection or even use and would sink a lot of isk.
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#14 - 2012-01-20 21:44:54 UTC
A true and effective ISK sink would come through fees and/or taxes. For example, how about a fee to use jump gates? Every jump costs xxx ISK.

Additionally, when you dock in a station, shields and cap are instantly recharged - and capsuleers should have to pay for that service. Based on the amount of power you require, and the amount of shield HP that needs to be recharged, you should have to wait or pay for the station's power.

The problem with a small sink like a ship auction is that it only skims off the top of the super-rich, and that doesn't make much of an effect. However, when you tax EVERYONE, than that can cause an economy to shift. It'll take a little time, but it'll be there. Raising the price on skillbooks, charging to jump between clones, and payments for the rights to mine belts in hisec could all be used to help balance the massive ISK faucets in the game.

Another idea, although CCP would NEVER implement this, would be to limit the number of hours that an account can play per day, "because capsuleers need sleep too"... lol
Archon Theo
Vigil Indomitus
Fraternity.
#15 - 2012-01-20 21:46:00 UTC
Sir, you have my approval.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#16 - 2012-01-20 21:50:59 UTC
Tidurious wrote:
A true and effective ISK sink would come through fees and/or taxes. For example, how about a fee to use jump gates? Every jump costs xxx ISK.

Additionally, when you dock in a station, shields and cap are instantly recharged - and capsuleers should have to pay for that service. Based on the amount of power you require, and the amount of shield HP that needs to be recharged, you should have to wait or pay for the station's power.

The problem with a small sink like a ship auction is that it only skims off the top of the super-rich, and that doesn't make much of an effect. However, when you tax EVERYONE, than that can cause an economy to shift. It'll take a little time, but it'll be there. Raising the price on skillbooks, charging to jump between clones, and payments for the rights to mine belts in hisec could all be used to help balance the massive ISK faucets in the game.

Another idea, although CCP would NEVER implement this, would be to limit the number of hours that an account can play per day, "because capsuleers need sleep too"... lol

1) No, seeing my wallet blink every time I jump would just be annoying. And besides, what if you have zero ISK? You can't go anywhere now, or it lets you anyway? If it lets you anyway, people just send all their ISK to their alt whenever they want to go anywhere.

2) They have this, it's called repair facilities. Probably one of the biggest ISK sinks in the game. Extending it to shields and capacitor isn't a particularly bad idea, but I think people would probably get pretty miffed about it.

3) How do you enforce high sec mining permits? Concord shows up in belts and holds miners hostage until they pay?

Anyway, you're assuming skillbooks, repairs, sales tax and all the other ISK sinks aren't currently sufficient. I'm not sure why, the in game economy seems to be doing fine to me.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Archon Theo
Vigil Indomitus
Fraternity.
#17 - 2012-01-20 21:59:35 UTC
CCP should absolutely start auctioning their goodies.Big smile
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#18 - 2012-01-20 22:06:29 UTC
Archon Theo wrote:
CCP should absolutely start auctioning their goodies.Big smile

WTB Concord army battleship.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#19 - 2012-01-20 23:41:38 UTC
I think they should make a store... that only sells clothes for our avatars. So I can look pretty. Now we should make this NPC made and use a new type of currency to pay for it. How about you can only get that currency by destroying PLEX?

Or they could nerf incursion payouts...
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-21 17:58:30 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
I think they should make a store... that only sells clothes for our avatars. So I can look pretty. Now we should make this NPC made and use a new type of currency to pay for it. How about you can only get that currency by destroying PLEX?

Or they could nerf incursion payouts...


Or moon mining.
"If."