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DPS variation, stationary target.
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Bank of Illumination
Salvador Sarpat1
#1 - 2017-01-17 00:10:35 UTC
Hit, Glances, smashes, etc.

Currently hitting a stationary target and I'm not moving either. I'm well within optimal range so I would love to know what causes this HUGE variation in DPS well over 30 percent. Someone told me this is just random...... I hope this isn't true.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2017-01-17 00:13:11 UTC
Yes, there is randomness involved.

The Eve uni wiki explains it well:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage
Memphis Baas
#3 - 2017-01-17 00:53:41 UTC
random()
Bank of Illumination
Salvador Sarpat1
#4 - 2017-01-17 01:44:48 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Yes, there is randomness involved.

The Eve uni wiki explains it well:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage


Some randomness??? 30 percent variation in damage applied! Good thing this is a pve game :)
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#5 - 2017-01-17 02:29:51 UTC
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-01-17 02:37:11 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

Missiles are even worse. Explosion velocity and signature radius are idiotic. In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP. Explosions also originate from a single point they don't spontaneously appear at a certain radius... what can one do though

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#7 - 2017-01-17 02:46:35 UTC
Bank of Illumination wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Yes, there is randomness involved.

The Eve uni wiki explains it well:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage


Some randomness??? 30 percent variation in damage applied! Good thing this is a pve game :)

Actually I think, as per the eveuni article, it's +/- 50% but have never looked that closely at the equations, nor tested it, so can't confirm one way or the other.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2017-01-17 03:06:26 UTC
Bank of Illumination wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Yes, there is randomness involved.

The Eve uni wiki explains it well:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage


Some randomness??? 30 percent variation in damage applied! Good thing this is a pve game :)

I do sincerely hope that is sarcasm.

If not... you are in for a rather bad time.

How did you Veterans start?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#9 - 2017-01-17 16:51:09 UTC
Can be amusing sometimes - we were testing something in corp awhile back dreadnought on dreadnought with seeing how PVE fits stood up against PVP fits and I got almost all good quality hits while the 2 people shooting me got all bad quality hits which completely turned the tables despite my tank being half of theirs.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#10 - 2017-01-17 17:26:04 UTC
The irony of the RNG mechanic even with the applied dps being relatively stable will, over short term engagements, make a HUGE and defining factor in some cases. Same ship, pilot skills etc will be coin tosses if you would sit and just shoot each other in optimal because of this. And because of the balancing factor you can see a string of too many good hits which are followed by the make up of a strong of bad hits. In the end its rather amusing realizing that it is this mechanic that killed you or won you a fight.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-01-17 17:28:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP.


Um, physics says no. Any electromagnetic energy (i.e. light, x-rays, gamma-rays) will travel at the speed of light , but the actual explosion (the shock wave, and any physical shrapnel) wouldn't approach anywhere near that speed.

Also, I I don't think explosive radius means what you think it means. It's simply the maximum size of the explosion, not where it appears from. So when a missile in Eve explodes, the explosion appears at a point P, and spreads out from that point at the speed listed, to a maximum radius as listed. That's why faster ships can avoid damage by flying faster than the explosion speed, and smaller ships take less damage from larger missiles because they only encounter part of the expanding ball of flaming death.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2017-01-17 17:56:46 UTC
It's \plusmin 50% with a 1% chance of 300% damage. So yeah, quite a bit of random variation.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#13 - 2017-01-18 04:33:31 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

Missiles are even worse. Explosion velocity and signature radius are idiotic. In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP. Explosions also originate from a single point they don't spontaneously appear at a certain radius... what can one do though


Yes but its not random at all. If you shot the same target going the same speed you will always get the same damage per hit.

Anyway while it is just a game mechanic it does relate somewhat to RL (not the missile thing, bigger missiles almost always wreck anything in RL), if you take a shot at something the damage done is often pretty random, did you hit something vital, did it hit at the wrong angle and just glance off ect ect (IE shooting a ship and hitting the magazine makes things go boom while hitting empty crew quarters might have little to no effect to combat readiness).
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-01-18 05:47:01 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Any electromagnetic energy (i.e. light, x-rays, gamma-rays) will travel at the speed of light.


There's no kinds of energy, just energy. Those three examples are wavelengths within the spectrum.
I can remember wondering about damage types, since any amount of kinetic striking will cause thermal damage eventually and explosive damage seemed a straight mystery. So i gave up wondering and learned the ways of the environment.

The RNG factor allows combat to be more than a straight-up stats quantitative comparison, with chance adding or leeching quality. I like it.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#15 - 2017-01-18 06:21:15 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Any electromagnetic energy (i.e. light, x-rays, gamma-rays) will travel at the speed of light.


There's no kinds of energy, just energy.



Pretty sure there are different types of Energy

"In physics, energy is a property of objects which can be transferred to other objects or converted into different forms but never created or destroyed"

"Common energy forms include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object's position in a force field (gravitational, electric or magnetic), the elastic energy stored by stretching solid objects, the chemical energy released when a fuel burns, the radiant energy carried by light, and the thermal energy due to an object's temperature"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy
Hipqo
Tyde8
#16 - 2017-01-18 10:00:20 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

Missiles are even worse. Explosion velocity and signature radius are idiotic. In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP. Explosions also originate from a single point they don't spontaneously appear at a certain radius... what can one do though


But eve isnt space, its liquid space ;)
Just look at the way your ship handles and the way it automaticaly levels it self out if you are flying up or down and stops.
So space logic doesnt apply.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
#17 - 2017-01-18 10:19:27 UTC
Hipqo wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

Missiles are even worse. Explosion velocity and signature radius are idiotic. In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP. Explosions also originate from a single point they don't spontaneously appear at a certain radius... what can one do though


But eve isnt space, its liquid space ;)
Just look at the way your ship handles and the way it automaticaly levels it self out if you are flying up or down and stops.
So space logic doesnt apply.


EVE is a submarine PVP sandbox where the subs look like spaceships.
Aegon the Dragonbane
War Were Declared
#18 - 2017-01-19 17:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aegon the Dragonbane
What's important here is we need a new stat introduced in EVE: critical hit chance (stat on turret mods). Remove this randomness.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2017-01-19 18:02:27 UTC
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
What's important here is we need a new stat introduced in EVE: critical hit chance (stat on turret mods). Remove this randomness.

We need a new chance in order to remove randomness?

That wasn't brained very well.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2017-01-20 10:47:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Andrew Indy wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Missiles, nothing random about them.

It does average out, you get some high and some low and unless you are in a frig or maybe fighting 1400mm arty the variation is not a huge issue.

Missiles are even worse. Explosion velocity and signature radius are idiotic. In space the velocity of an explosion is light speed, especially nuclear and EMP. Explosions also originate from a single point they don't spontaneously appear at a certain radius... what can one do though



it's almost like they are gameplay mechanics not a real physical reaction

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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