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Sisters of Eve Mission 27 ship and fit out help
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2017-01-17 20:55:09 UTC
Quote:
Update: the original text above also had the text: "They make it easier to warp though". This is wrong (see SurrenderMonkey's post, two posts down)

No... SurrenderMonkey is correct... but only when circumstances are a certain way.

Google: "Web-warp trick" (or "webbing freighters").

How did you Veterans start?
Black-Hawk Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2017-01-17 21:43:41 UTC
Akane Togenada wrote:
Burning Down the Hive can also be completed with a destroyer fitted for long range. I used a Cormorant with Rails (Iridium Ammo) and had an optimal of around 23 km. This is so far away that the Drones will be unable to apply either much damage or do their nastly webbing/scramming.

I'd argue that even if the learn how to tank lesson is probably the missions main objective it could also be seen as a learn range control mission if one chooses the long range option.


my optimal range was only about 8km so how did you get 23km range? Am I missing something?
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-01-17 22:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Black-Hawk Ellecon wrote:
Akane Togenada wrote:
Burning Down the Hive can also be completed with a destroyer fitted for long range. I used a Cormorant with Rails (Iridium Ammo) and had an optimal of around 23 km. This is so far away that the Drones will be unable to apply either much damage or do their nastly webbing/scramming.

I'd argue that even if the learn how to tank lesson is probably the missions main objective it could also be seen as a learn range control mission if one chooses the long range option.


my optimal range was only about 8km so how did you get 23km range? Am I missing something?



Hi

As I told before I used Ibis for this mission.

1x Afterburner

1x 150mm Railgun 1 with Spike S / Iron S ( the ones that gave 60% more range)

1x F-90 Targeting Sensor Booster I with Range Script.

1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer 1 (gave some more damage)


F-90 with Script let me target them at 30km.

Railgun plus Spike S let me deal damage at 20 km.

Kept distance kiting and toggling afterburner.

(Took a long time and distance. A couple of hundred charges.)

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Akane Togenada
Doomheim
#24 - 2017-01-17 22:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Akane Togenada
Black-Hawk Ellecon wrote:
Akane Togenada wrote:
Burning Down the Hive can also be completed with a destroyer fitted for long range. I used a Cormorant with Rails (Iridium Ammo) and had an optimal of around 23 km. This is so far away that the Drones will be unable to apply either much damage or do their nastly webbing/scramming.

I'd argue that even if the learn how to tank lesson is probably the missions main objective it could also be seen as a learn range control mission if one chooses the long range option.


my optimal range was only about 8km so how did you get 23km range? Am I missing something?


A few factors that explains the difference:

1. The Cormorant get's a 10 % bonus to optimal range for each level of Caldari Destroyer (I have III so that's 30 % increase). The Catalyst gets a 10 % bonus to fallof range instead.

2. I'm pretty sure your 8 km range is with antimatter ammo loaded. If you have Iridium loaded on a rail fitted Catalyst you should get more then 8 km optimal.

It's really two different ships even though the basic stats and fitting options are quite simillar. The Catalyst bonus to fallof seems to suggest it's primary role is to be fitted with Blasters for heavy short range damage. The Cormorant bonus to optimal seems to suggest it's primary role is to be fitted with Rails for long range sniping (not the best choice obviously but very cheap in comparison to other ships used in simillar roles).

I'd say the Cormorant might have a slight edge in PvE while the Catalyst is clearly preferable for PvP.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#25 - 2017-01-17 22:45:34 UTC
WIth my Alpha I tried Burning Down the Hive... I know how to play, but I got lazy... I warped out too. :)

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GlSSkHVD0pE/WGbqgBB2D-I/AAAAAAAACls/xCGMY-wZY5AeIHkqyoIg85OyWup2oh5DACLcB/s1600/BarryZ28.png

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-01-18 06:14:09 UTC
Black-Hawk Ellecon wrote:
my optimal range was only about 8km so how did you get 23km range? Am I missing something?

Guns come in short range (for you, Blasters) and long-range variants (Rails). Bigger rails have longer range, but they also use more CPU, grid, and Cap. It's hard to fit a full rack of 150s on a Cat.

Ammo affects range too. Read the Hybrid part of this (twice):
http://www.eveinfo.net/complexes/inde~932.htm

If you want to maximize range, you'll have to use lower-dps ammo. And you'll probably have to leave one (maybe two) turrets empty. OTOH, while sniping is slower than getting close, it' a lot safer. Also FWIW, the Gallente Algos can be set up to fight at 40 km (with only drone dps though) so the Cormorant isn't the best Long Range destroyer :)

Apart from ammo, you can influence range with a Tracking Computer + Optimal range script (it can also fit a "Tracking Speed Script" for when you want to be closer to your targets). There's also a "Tracking Enhancer" module (not scriptable) that can do both at once.

If you look at the "traits" for Catalysts vs Cormorants, you see the details of what Akane Togenada said: both have a flat 50% Optimal Range bonus with the ship, but the Cormorant gets +10% more for both Optimal and Falloff per "Caldari Destroyer" skill level, while the Cat gets Falloff and Tracking.

There's a second not-so-hidden message above too. Hopefully you can see (part of) the skeleton of a fitting system that starts with hull traits & slot layout (with some reference to CPU, Grid, Cap, resistances, Drone bandwidth, etc), and uses modules to enhance the hull characteristics you need for a particular task.

Some other modules you've probably seen mentioned:

  • Magnetic Field Stabilizers add Hybrid dps
  • Drone Damage Amplifiers add drone damage (assuming you try an Algos, or go back to the Tristan)
  • Sensor Booster (scriptable) can be used to add targeting range


There are modules (and sometimes rigs) for almost everything. But of course you only have so many slots,and you can't add slots to a hull.



mkint
#27 - 2017-01-18 17:17:58 UTC
I'm coming in late here, so a few things. Use the in game fitting simulation to see the stats you'll get before you buy it. Never trust someone else's loadout as is. You need to know that it's going to do what you think it should do, and while pre built loadouts might be good enough for a fleet where it'll average out, for solo stuff you need the performance of a custom loadout.

1) guns - the ones you've got are fine, my usual preference, but keep around a full rack of neutron blasters with you as well. You are allowed to own more than 1 type of gun, just don't mix fitted guns. You can also keep around a couple mag stabs in case your tank is more than you need and DPS less than you need.

2) tank - looks good. imo, a little over tanked. I prefer a speed tank in small ships. I'd tend to swap out those resists for propulsion mods. Also be aware, damage control isn't particularly useful for improving a PVE tank compared to other alternatives. The biggest advantage of it is that it adds hull resists, which if you hit hull, you've already done something wrong in PVE. It might buy you more time to run away, but there are better options for improving your armor and holding the field, such as the eanm you've already got fitted.

3) controlling the range - you've got your AB, and your web. Good start. Like I said, I like being fast, but that's not the only way to control ranges. The longer range of rails helps give you range flexibility as well. I'm not sure what the range of your ammo is, but make sure you have 1 that's outside of web range at 12ish km, then maybe another even further out. Consider tracking mods to effectively improve your DPS at longer ranges (you can use shorter range ammo at longer ranges, therefore higher DPS.)

Some numbers. A cheap neutron blaster DPS catalyst can get approximately 300 DPS, but has range issues. A comparable Algos has about 230 DPS with much more flexible range options but more skills required for minimal effectiveness. Skills you're gonna need eventually anyway flying Gallente. It sounds like yours is around 100 DPS, which is fine for most situations, but be prepared to be flexible.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Black-Hawk Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-01-18 20:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Black-Hawk Ellecon
mkint wrote:
I'm coming in late here, so a few things. Use the in game fitting simulation to see the stats you'll get before you buy it. Never trust someone else's loadout as is. You need to know that it's going to do what you think it should do, and while pre built loadouts might be good enough for a fleet where it'll average out, for solo stuff you need the performance of a custom loadout.

1) guns - the ones you've got are fine, my usual preference, but keep around a full rack of neutron blasters with you as well. You are allowed to own more than 1 type of gun, just don't mix fitted guns. You can also keep around a couple mag stabs in case your tank is more than you need and DPS less than you need.

2) tank - looks good. imo, a little over tanked. I prefer a speed tank in small ships. I'd tend to swap out those resists for propulsion mods. Also be aware, damage control isn't particularly useful for improving a PVE tank compared to other alternatives. The biggest advantage of it is that it adds hull resists, which if you hit hull, you've already done something wrong in PVE. It might buy you more time to run away, but there are better options for improving your armor and holding the field, such as the eanm you've already got fitted.

3) controlling the range - you've got your AB, and your web. Good start. Like I said, I like being fast, but that's not the only way to control ranges. The longer range of rails helps give you range flexibility as well. I'm not sure what the range of your ammo is, but make sure you have 1 that's outside of web range at 12ish km, then maybe another even further out. Consider tracking mods to effectively improve your DPS at longer ranges (you can use shorter range ammo at longer ranges, therefore higher DPS.)

Some numbers. A cheap neutron blaster DPS catalyst can get approximately 300 DPS, but has range issues. A comparable Algos has about 230 DPS with much more flexible range options but more skills required for minimal effectiveness. Skills you're gonna need eventually anyway flying Gallente. It sounds like yours is around 100 DPS, which is fine for most situations, but be prepared to be flexible.


what neutron blasters exactly as there are several? I have 3 light ion blasters should i use those and get 5 more? Or should I get 8 light neutron blasters?
mkint
#29 - 2017-01-19 03:18:58 UTC
Black-Hawk Ellecon wrote:
mkint wrote:
I'm coming in late here, so a few things. Use the in game fitting simulation to see the stats you'll get before you buy it. Never trust someone else's loadout as is. You need to know that it's going to do what you think it should do, and while pre built loadouts might be good enough for a fleet where it'll average out, for solo stuff you need the performance of a custom loadout.

1) guns - the ones you've got are fine, my usual preference, but keep around a full rack of neutron blasters with you as well. You are allowed to own more than 1 type of gun, just don't mix fitted guns. You can also keep around a couple mag stabs in case your tank is more than you need and DPS less than you need.

2) tank - looks good. imo, a little over tanked. I prefer a speed tank in small ships. I'd tend to swap out those resists for propulsion mods. Also be aware, damage control isn't particularly useful for improving a PVE tank compared to other alternatives. The biggest advantage of it is that it adds hull resists, which if you hit hull, you've already done something wrong in PVE. It might buy you more time to run away, but there are better options for improving your armor and holding the field, such as the eanm you've already got fitted.

3) controlling the range - you've got your AB, and your web. Good start. Like I said, I like being fast, but that's not the only way to control ranges. The longer range of rails helps give you range flexibility as well. I'm not sure what the range of your ammo is, but make sure you have 1 that's outside of web range at 12ish km, then maybe another even further out. Consider tracking mods to effectively improve your DPS at longer ranges (you can use shorter range ammo at longer ranges, therefore higher DPS.)

Some numbers. A cheap neutron blaster DPS catalyst can get approximately 300 DPS, but has range issues. A comparable Algos has about 230 DPS with much more flexible range options but more skills required for minimal effectiveness. Skills you're gonna need eventually anyway flying Gallente. It sounds like yours is around 100 DPS, which is fine for most situations, but be prepared to be flexible.


what neutron blasters exactly as there are several? I have 3 light ion blasters should i use those and get 5 more? Or should I get 8 light neutron blasters?

Neutrons are the highest DPS of the blaster variants, and they are easy to fit a full rack (as opposed to rails where it's extremely difficult to fit a full rack of the biggest 150's.) I'm not going to tell you you HAVE to use them, but there are very few situations where I'd personally use any other blaster. Which version of neutrons doesn't really matter. Show info > variations > compare. Don't blow your budget. Ideally use matching guns exactly, but if you do have to mix different types of neutron blasters it won't be that big a deal.

Be aware, the most important part, the part that nearly always decides who wins the fight, is controlling the range. Blasters can almost never control the range because your engagement window is so narrow. People who fly with blasters regularly become very good at controlling the range, and they still lose most of the time. It's not easy. However, it is hilarious watching a tough tank just evaporate in front of you. :) For the SOE arc, you'll only really need the blasters for Dagan, an ideal situation where the range is so easy to control and the target's only real advantage is its tank.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Akane Togenada
Doomheim
#30 - 2017-01-22 12:12:52 UTC
Black-Hawk Ellecon wrote:
what neutron blasters exactly as there are several? I have 3 light ion blasters should i use those and get 5 more? Or should I get 8 light neutron blasters?


Simple answer: If you can fit 8 Neutron Blasters without sacrificing other modules you want in Middle and Low you should do so. If I remember correctly a Catalyst should be easier to fit then my Cormorant so it is likely that you could get away with 8 Neutrons even as a quite new character.
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