Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I hear you can mine those in nullsec.

I work in investment management with a guy who worked for the fed for years and teaches graduate level economics at night. The entire point I was making is our fed relies on government involvement. Which EVE doesn't have. The check IS backed by something. The full faith and force of the government. Who do you think issues and buys back those bonds? The US government. There is no government in EVE. That's what I was trying to guide you towards. There are no t-bills, bonds or notes without the US government, so we can't use something like the FED in a discussion of EVE's markets.

It absolutely matters if you have some details wrong.

Now you're going to say, "what good is the 'full faith and force of the government'"? The answer is, it's pretty good. The only bonds that have defaulted globally in the western world were Italy's during their recent collapse. The full faith of a government is a powerful thing to use to control currencies. So, if we want to regulate EVE's economy, it's useless to think about before there's a strong government (which will never happen)

Neither of which you understand.



Which is a bad idea and leads to hyperinflation, just as your precious gold standard would.



We just like to see things that are actually thought out. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Gold standards lead to hyperinflations? Where on earth do people learn economics these days? The same places they learn math and science and everything else, I guess.

I'd heard that education had taken a nose-dive in the last few decades. I guess it's worse than I thought.

I agree on that, as an economist.

And I would not be surprised if EVE's economy was not one of the largest economic simulations in the world. Almost the entire economy is player driven.

I talk to people all the time who say "Good God! A Machariel or Nightmare at 300-ish mil? I remember when they were over a billion!"

Look, I have no huge beef with the current system. I have no huge beef with the skill queue either, but I've offered suggestions on how it could be better. I have no huge beef with my father's big block with the 4-barrel carburetor, but I think it would be even better with electronic fuel injection.

Nothing is perfect, I'm merely suggesting what I think would be a better way. With the current system, it requires monitoring to see whether production is outstripping ISK creation yadda yadda. With the system I propose, everything would sort of be 'automated' and would not need the degree of monitoring or tweaks the current system in all likelihood needs.

Fair enough.


I've seen the (monthly? quarterly?) 'sinks and faucets' summaries. The amount of stuff sunk, and the amount of stuff fauceted, is generally out of whack, whatever that means.

There's really no way that a sink and faucet model can work ('work' meaning no inflation/deflation), except either by luck, or by monitoring of the economy and making adjustments. I am simply proposing a way to not have to rely on luck, or continuous monitoring and making adjustments.

If you think the superior way is to have CCP or whoever continually monitor the economy and make fixes or tweaks where needed, fine, have at it I guess. No skin off my nose.


Fair enough.

Sinks and sources summaries won't answer the question. What you need to do is look at the net change in the money supply relative to the change on in quantities.

You seem to have a rudimentary grasp of the basic elements of the quantity theory of money. But the actual identity is,

M*V = P*Q

M: the money supply,
V: the velocity of money, how quickly money moves from holder to holder.
P: the nominal price level
Q: the real output or transactions.

If V is held constant and Q does not change, then an increase in M leads to an increase in P.

Of course, this is an economic/accounting identity and one should be very careful reasoning from identities. While they are true by definition they are also devoid of any theoretical content. That is, any theory should have implications that adhere to various identities, but given that there are multiple theories that can satisfy these identities satisfying identities tells you nothing about the validity of any theory.

Now in the long run, it is widely held that money is neutral, that is an increase in the money supply will eventually, all other things being constant, lead to an increase in the money supply. The reason for this is that at the end of the day, people only care about the real aspects of the economy.

However, all other things are not constant, so we need to look at the money supply in relation to real goods and services.

This is what price indices do. They take a basket of goods and measure the prices at different points in time. Ideally you want a price index that treats price increases and decreases the same.

Oh wow, that is some Akita T-level economic analysis there.

It's out of whack, folks.

Whatever that means.