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Is the Alpha clone a problem?

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Jacques d'Orleans
#421 - 2017-01-17 19:34:50 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
IIRC McDonald's sells beer in France and Germany. That's what 2000 years of civilisation and the Romans do for you Twisted

*rubs some salt in*


I'm bavarian, sometimes I have beer with my breakfast! Lol

Wow, and here I was thinking that the definition of breakfast is that it is the meal without alcohol.

Arrow Mind blown.

Switzerland has beer in McDonald's too Blink


There is a say in Bavaria: 5 pints are a nice lunch but you still haven't eaten something. Lol

Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#422 - 2017-01-17 19:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Stop killing noobs.

There is no profit in it.

You seem to have forgotten what the topic is.


I havent forgotten anything.

Your "seem" is entirely in your own head.

This is true. Like I seem to recall you saying you have expertise in science and statistics.

But, that is just in my head because there's no proof that you do, anywhere.

You shoot your mouth off easily, but don't back it up. Ever.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#423 - 2017-01-17 19:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Noobs != newbs

Killing noobs is an extremely valuable service to the community, they're not worthy of being here P

Killing newbs on the other hand is much more of an educational thing if handled properly by both parties.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Salvos Rhoska
#424 - 2017-01-17 19:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
This is true. Like I seem to recall you saying you have expertise in science and statistics.

But, that is just in my head because there's no proof that you do, anywhere.

You shoot your mouth off easily, but don't back it up. Ever.


It "seems" to me that you provided a bunch of unsubstantiated documents that in no way, shape or form corroborate or support your arguments.

You shot your mouth off, and missed. And are now perpetuating an off-topic direction.

Perhaps you have forgotten the point of the thread?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#425 - 2017-01-17 19:52:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
This is true. Like I seem to recall you saying you have expertise in science and statistics.

But, that is just in my head because there's no proof that you do, anywhere.

You shoot your mouth off easily, but don't back it up. Ever.


It "seems" to me that you provided a bunch of unsubstantiated documents that in no way, shape or form corroborate or support your arguments.

You shot your mouth off, and missed. And are now perpetuating an off-topic direction.

Perhaps you have forgotten the point of the thread?

I was wrong in my last post. You do provide some proof.

That there's no cure for stupid.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#426 - 2017-01-17 19:52:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Killing newbs on the other hand is much more of an educational thing if handled properly by both parties.


Its not a service to anyone. There is no profit in killing noobs.

Its essentially punching babies in the face.
Do you find that a service or an educational thing?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#427 - 2017-01-17 19:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is no profit in killing noobs.

What does profit have to do with it?

"Noob" players deserve everything they get, whether that is from an alpha or not. It certainly isn't griefing to kill a noob. They do it themselves most of the time.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#428 - 2017-01-17 19:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
What does profit have to do with it?


This is not a refutation of my argument.

Why do you kill noobs if there is no profit in it?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#429 - 2017-01-17 19:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Killing newbs on the other hand is much more of an educational thing if handled properly by both parties.


Its not a service to anyone. There is no profit in killing noobs.

Its essentially punching babies in the face.
Do you find that a service or an educational thing?
His point appears to have gone so far over your head that it's currently skipping across the ionosphere like an errant radio wave.

Noob and newb are not the same thing.

One needs to die repeatedly with no explanation until they quit, the other needs to die and then receive some friendly advice on how not to die in the same way again; then they need to die in a different way and get more friendly advice, repeat until they stop dying so much.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#430 - 2017-01-17 20:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
What does profit have to do with it?


This is not a refutation of my argument.

There's nothing to refute since you haven't provided an argument.

You asked a question (about service or education) and a question was asked back. You also made a statement.

A question isn't an argument. A statement isn't an argument.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#431 - 2017-01-17 20:01:55 UTC
There is no profit in killing noobs.

Why do you do it?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#432 - 2017-01-17 20:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Why do you do it?

I don't.

Now back on topic, from reading the whole thread, there doesn't seem to be anything that truly answers one way or the other if alphas are a problem.

They appear not to be in terms of killing people, but that might not be the only metric that is important in the idea of 'griefing' if you believe everything that happens to you is someone else's fault.

So, after 21 pages, I guess, we still don't know but do know CCP are watching the alpha introduction carefully and will make changes where they think they need to.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#433 - 2017-01-17 20:08:18 UTC
Do you claim there is profit in killing noobs?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#434 - 2017-01-17 20:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Do you claim there is profit in killing noobs?

I don't give a crap either way. It's completely irrelevant to this topic.

Why does profit matter?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#435 - 2017-01-17 20:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is no profit in killing noobs.

What does profit have to do with it?
Indeed, despite Eve having a full loot mechanic there's no profit motive required; "because I can" is as good a reason as any, it is after all a PvP game.

The majority of PvP games don't require a profit motive for killing another player.

Quote:
"Noob" players deserve everything they get, whether that is from an alpha or not. It certainly isn't griefing to kill a noob. They do it themselves most of the time.
I don't think he understands the distinction that I was making, no surprises there.

Noobs can be profitable to kill, some will try to buy their way to success. Their choice to do so makes for expensive and profitable kills.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2017-01-17 20:22:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is no profit in killing noobs.

Why do you do it?

'profit' can come in various forms.
It can come in form of ISK (like when you kill noobs farming FW and take their loot)
It can come in form of green killboard (i know, i know...)
....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#437 - 2017-01-17 20:22:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Do you claim there is profit in killing noobs?


Outside of rookie systems,people kill noobs for the same reason CODE ganks miners. Not my cup of tea (I've killed exactly one MTU in HS and never ganked anyone) but it's a valid playstyle. There's profit in enjoyment of your playstyle and having fun the way you want.

EVE tells you you can be the villain. That was literally in their ads for a while. You saying there's no profit in killing noobs is like someone telling you there's no profit in missioning. Let people do what they enjoy. That's the point of a sandbox.
Salvos Rhoska
#438 - 2017-01-17 20:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
So you say there is profit in killing noobs?

Ok then.

Enjoy your "profits".

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#439 - 2017-01-17 20:43:31 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
What does profit have to do with it?


This is not a refutation of my argument.

Why do you kill noobs if there is no profit in it?


Maybe because Jonah drew a distinction between noobs and newbs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#440 - 2017-01-17 20:50:09 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is no profit in killing noobs.

Why do you do it?

'profit' can come in various forms.
It can come in form of ISK (like when you kill noobs farming FW and take their loot)
It can come in form of green killboard (i know, i know...)
....


And one could argue that killing noobs (as opposed to newbs) is good for the game as a whole, but that isn't really profit...more like a public service.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online