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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improvements on micro-managing drones

Author
Deckel
Island Paradise
#1 - 2017-01-17 02:26:17 UTC
I propose that when drones are active they should be able to be micro managed with a better interface and abiltiy than right clicking them and selecting an option.

I would either like individual 1-5 key bindings for them or their groups, or the ability to drag them individually or by a grouping into module slots. This will make it much easier to individually set them to engage, mine or salvage. While salvaging is the real one I want this for it will also be an improvement for combat, as there is more incentive to split active drone types between ewar, logistics and damage if their targets can be quickly managed.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2017-01-17 03:17:10 UTC
I am mostly apathetic to your idea in general... but this needs to be addressed:

Deckel wrote:
it will also be an improvement for combat, as there is more incentive to split active drone types between ewar, logistics and damage if their targets can be quickly managed.

There is never a good reason to use split your drones up and use each one on a different target. Ever.

Likewise, there is never a good reason to use fundamentally different drone types (see: Ewar vs DPS) at the same time.

Without massive bonuses, a solo drone deals pitiful damage.
Likewise, individual Ewar and Logi drones do next to nothing due to their small effect bonuses. it is only when you combine a bunch of them that you see some kind of measurable effect.


If you are flying with a group of competent PvPers, and they see you splitting your drones up like that (or mixing your drone types), you will be publicly laughed at and blown up on principle for the sheer stupidity of it.

Disclosure: I was one of those people.
Shu t'Me
#3 - 2017-01-17 04:57:28 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is never a good reason to use split your drones up and use each one on a different target. Ever.

Gila killing PvE frigates.

Not supporting OP's idea, just pointing out... P
Deckel
Island Paradise
#4 - 2017-01-17 05:27:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

There is never a good reason to use split your drones up and use each one on a different target. Ever.

Likewise, there is never a good reason to use fundamentally different drone types (see: Ewar vs DPS) at the same time.


And do you only load up one type of drone in your ships? No, of course not. They are useful things and having a variety of different kinds increases the utility of your ship.

I know that It is not good practice to field multiple types, but it does happen. Many times due to ship restrictions in not being able to load a full flight of situational drones or by having some drones in a specific flight killed off or lost. You have to make due with what you have and maximize your potential. And if you need to field your only three ewar drones to jam a pointer or some logi and only have damage drones for the rest, you field them, but that doesn't mean that it is always appropriate to keep all five of your drones on the same target, you might want to apply the damage drones to the FC primary instead, but you won't because the current system makes the ability to do this problematic. It is however an ability that we already have, it is just inconvenient to do so.

So, make it less inconvenient and give us our hotkeys.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2017-01-17 06:36:29 UTC
Eliminate drones? Micromanagement problem solved...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2017-01-17 07:24:11 UTC
Why hotkeys? You have the radial menu for that. Don't give CCP funny ideas or they might get to the conclusion that this utter bovine waste of fighter management should be applied to drones as well.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2017-01-17 11:26:40 UTC
Go the other way, make drones deploy in wings like fighters. Solves a lot more problems.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6775007#post6775007

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2017-01-17 13:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
This is a bovine waste idea. The fighter management is horrible, tiresome and completely inconvenient to use on ships that only have drones. Putting that rubbish on ships that use drones as just a secondary damage augmentor or 50:50 damage dealer with other weapons is a horrible way to nerf combat.

Also thanks for suggestion nerfs to drone boats by suggesting drone squads. I rather enjoy the freedom to put each of my 5 drones on 5 different targets rather than waste them on 1 target. Much appreciated input.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lena Crews
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#9 - 2017-01-17 14:17:16 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I am mostly apathetic to your idea in general... but this needs to be addressed:

Deckel wrote:
it will also be an improvement for combat, as there is more incentive to split active drone types between ewar, logistics and damage if their targets can be quickly managed.

There is never a good reason to use split your drones up and use each one on a different target. Ever.


Salvage drones?

For that reason alone I'd love an option for auto-salvaging where they avoid targeting a wreck targeted by another salvage drone.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#10 - 2017-01-17 14:22:03 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Also thanks for suggestion nerfs to drone boats by suggesting drone squads. I rather enjoy the freedom to put each of my 5 drones on 5 different targets rather than waste them on 1 target. Much appreciated input.


The upsides are too good to ignore. Splitting drones is so niche and of so little use it's insignificant.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2017-01-17 14:27:22 UTC
What upsides? Server performance? CCP just wasted the server performance about 2 weeks ago with i don't know what they did. Ever since the Sunday after the last big patch, I get traffic control, time outs, long system loading times and worse things. Putting drones in a single squad is not going to improve that screw up on CCP's tech part.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2017-01-17 14:49:37 UTC
The server load alone is worth it compared to the insignificance of splitting drones. But if you read the thread i linked there are other benefits.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2017-01-17 15:00:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What upsides? Server performance? CCP just wasted the server performance about 2 weeks ago with i don't know what they did. Ever since the Sunday after the last big patch, I get traffic control, time outs, long system loading times and worse things. Putting drones in a single squad is not going to improve that screw up on CCP's tech part.


Ha! So I am not the only one. A few hours ago I had to wait 7 minutes to make a jump in Devoid from Odin to Esca-something.

Then in Caldari space and Heimatar. Was horrible.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2017-01-17 21:46:50 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The server load alone is worth it compared to the insignificance of splitting drones. But if you read the thread i linked there are other benefits.

I do not see any benefits over the current way things are, especially if you allow ships to have several squads/wings/swarms. Care to explain how a 5 squads of drones are less sever load than 5 drones?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-01-17 22:00:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The server load alone is worth it compared to the insignificance of splitting drones. But if you read the thread i linked there are other benefits.

I do not see any benefits over the current way things are, especially if you allow ships to have several squads/wings/swarms. Care to explain how a 5 squads of drones are less sever load than 5 drones?


I've explained this to you before, Rivr, when you were herfblerfing about the huge load that entire squadrons of fighters must surely cause.

Just as with fighters, the squad would be a single entity. The "5 drones" are then merely an abstract representation in the attributes - they're not actually there. There's only ONE object that has a position and velocity, ONE object that's dealing or receiving damage, etc.

This is just a profoundly basic concept, I don't understand why it's so complicated.

If 5 hammerheads shoot something, the server calculates 5 different damage "Rolls".

If single squadron acting as an abstract representation of 5 hammerheads shoots something, the server calculates a single damage roll (or, hell, it could even do the damage rolls independently, but still leave it as a single tracked entity - that's entirely down to just how much abstraction you want).

Think of it as a single drone that's 5x as powerful. Obviously that's less load than 5 independent drones, yes? The only difference is decrementing the # of effective drones at the appropriate HP thresholds... which is literally just subtracting 1 from an attribute.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2017-01-17 22:45:38 UTC
That's why I said 5 squads vs 5 drones, not 1 squad vs 5 drones, because Nevyn mentioned that ships could have several squads.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2017-01-18 01:10:03 UTC
I like being able to manage my drones as is thanks. Sllit for NpE frigs, recall individuals taking damage, 5 chanes at critical hits, 5 wrecks salvaging at once.

How does a drone wing work? Is all damage spread evenly on the drones? If not do I recall the whole wing if one is taking damage? That takes 100% of my dps from drones out of the fight while I rotate wing? Does drone damage go up to compensate? If so doesn't this mess with damage profiles as my ship would now do higher burst damage until I need to rotate wings.

Too much to mess with ad you would need to rebalance everyghing to do with drones to a greatrr or lesser degree, including every ship that uses them.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#18 - 2017-01-18 01:29:59 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
...If single squadron acting as an abstract representation of 5 hammerheads shoots something, the server calculates a single damage roll.....


That is the whole reason the Gila and the Worm were nerfed.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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