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Militias and NullSeccers

Author
Saille Horo'Sha
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-01-15 06:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Saille Horo'Sha
To the lads and lasses on the frontlines of Empire Space; Do you consider those who up and move on out to NullSec, from civilian workers to ship crews to capsuleers, to be traitors to your Empire?

And to NullSeccers like myself; Do you FEEL like a traitor to the nation you grew up in, and who gave you your first ship?

It's been a question niggling at the back of my mind for a while, brought right to the fore with all the 'property management' I've been involved with in Perimeter and the surrounding systems. I mean, the State trained me up to the point I was a fully-fledged capsuleer. Within a few hours of that I was past the border and unpacking my bags aboard the Beanstar amongst Amarr, Minmatar and even Gallente.

Now, I hardly think the military lifestyle would suit little old me. No matter what gets said here, I doubt that I'll go running off to the nearest recruitment office with a heart full of spunky patriotism. But it would be nice to know I won't be getting too many dirty looks from the Caldari patrols whenever the Gobfather wills us back to HiSec.

I barely have the ISK to keep myself flying. I'm a terrible pilot. I'm an even worse businesswoman. I'm not even sure what half my ship's controls are for. But in some small way, I'm helping. And I couldn't be happier.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-01-15 07:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Those, who run from the service to NullSec? No, they aren't traitors unless they attack Caldari State, our militia, our assets or our allies, would it be by a word or action.

While they simply run to lawless space to enjoy company of pirates they don't commit anything that constitutes treason. They are just deserters. While the traitors shall be sought around and eliminated, deserters are just low life in whom, I believe, the State does not have further interest, just like they don't have interest in us anymore.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Tsao Aubbes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-01-15 07:18:13 UTC
When it comes down to it.. I don't really think I'm a traitor. I.. can't really pin down why I moved to nullsec. I'm spending more and more time each day shooting rogue drones, and I think that's what I'm gonna keep doing. In a way, I think I'm helping clean up the mess we made. But.. maybe that's just an excuse.. I'm not really sure.

Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.

Merchant Rova
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2017-01-15 07:23:35 UTC
I'm probably considered a traitor to the empire, or something like that. Dunno. But, and I know you were asking about null, but I don't feel like a traitor for living in wormhole space. It's just a different lifestyle, and the militia wars are stupid to say the least.
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2017-01-15 08:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
The best way to serve the Republic is dyin' over n' over on the frontlines. For some folks. Others have other ideas that may or not help the betterment o' their people in the future. But if a hundred falls to corruption, temptation, cowardice, comfort, power n' such, while one achieves greatness n' still rememberin' where he came from, it did worth it.

Wotever I do, it's ultimately fo' me people. Tis none of them business wot I do fo' that end n' where.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-01-15 11:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
I had already completed my contract terms with the Republic military. As long as I am not turning my ships and weapons against the Republic and her allies, what I do is none of their business.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#7 - 2017-01-15 11:33:43 UTC
Null Seccer's as traitors? No. Not for the most part. Though I find Republic trained pilots that run off to join groups like CVA or their immediate renter allies objectionable.

What I do find irksome is the problem some have in leaving NBSI behind them in null sec. Carrying that frame of mind down into low sec and, to a lesser extent, high is not helpful.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#8 - 2017-01-15 13:56:28 UTC
As someone who's done both, absolutely not for either question. Though I also feel everyone in the TLF (don't really care if the others do this) should do some form of nullsec combat so that they expand their skillset. They are two different forms of combat and should be treated that way. Anyone looking to improve their skills shouldn't ignore one aspect of combat over another.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#9 - 2017-01-15 16:26:36 UTC
Not all of us got our wings through a military program or in an environment that fosters compulsory services. As an alumnus of Pator Tech School, my education and certification was paid for by my Clan's pooled resources. As soon as I could, I began paying that loan back, with interest. That meant following the money. By the time I left the State for Anoikis, I'd already repayed the initial outlay three or four times over. (We do kind of make a ridiculous amount of money once we get going.)

Through my time in J-space, and on into my career in null, I've continued to send money back, which I at least have to presume is being funneled into the Republic's economy. So... no, I really don't feel like I'm a traitor. If my Tribe needs me, they'll tell me. Until then, I'm building up a network of contacts, working with very talented individuals, and learning as much as I can.

And, you know, getting a nice little nest egg of my own.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#10 - 2017-01-15 16:52:50 UTC
Yes, unless they're sending a lot of ISK home or plan to use the expertise they gather in nullsec to help their people.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#11 - 2017-01-15 17:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
No, for a number of reasons.

First, existentially, each of us has the obligation of choice. We decide what is, and is not, worth our time. And the experiences of one individual that have bound them closely to their nationality are not the same as someone who has been driven away, or decided to move away, from theirs. That measure of morality is a thousand shades of grey, and applying any one scale is ludicrous for the simple fact that we are all individuals, and everyone has a point of no return.

Second, legally, the notion that our origin shapes our future ends the instant we become independent capsuleers. There are no laws that keep us where we began. And thus, legally, we're free to do as we will, accepting the consequences.

Third, is a more nebulous moral view, which starts and ends with the question "Whose good really matters more?". Is it more important to grease a governments wheels with ISK? Or does some **** poor settlement in null need you more? For many, admittedly, this last point really is moot, but even the most amoral pirate has some positive effect when they dump stolen goods onto the market that someone else really didn't need.

Personally, I'll stand for the State if needed. It isn't needed at this time. I have my own agenda otherwise.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#12 - 2017-01-16 00:46:11 UTC
Frankly, it's not like the militia should be consider more loyal to their faction than nullseccers. The Pendulum War is really just a way to keep us occupied in lowsec while giving the most militant baseliners on both side a place to trade bloody noses. Wait, I meant sacrifice their lives in a blaze of misplaced loyalty. Not that I'm against it. I think it's a quite wonderful setup that certainly is better than the alternative. Peace is unsustainable; war can last forever. But don't misattribute loyalty to where it is not.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#13 - 2017-01-16 06:13:14 UTC
There's a lot of pilots that live in Hisec doing contract work who's loyalty only really extends to convenience of location and the paycheque. Much the same can be said of the glut of the militias lists of pilots. Conflating whom one works for and where with true loyalty to a given Nation is a fool's game.

Also, why is this so Nullsec centric? What about Anoikis dwellers?

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Saille Horo'Sha
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-01-16 06:25:28 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
There's a lot of pilots that live in Hisec doing contract work who's loyalty only really extends to convenience of location and the paycheque. Much the same can be said of the glut of the militias lists of pilots. Conflating whom one works for and where with true loyalty to a given Nation is a fool's game.

Also, why is this so Nullsec centric? What about Anoikis dwellers?


Could extend it to anyone outside of empire space, really. I just asked about NullSec in particular since that's where I'm at.

I barely have the ISK to keep myself flying. I'm a terrible pilot. I'm an even worse businesswoman. I'm not even sure what half my ship's controls are for. But in some small way, I'm helping. And I couldn't be happier.

Yarosara Ruil
#15 - 2017-01-16 10:02:07 UTC
Nothing upsets me more than those silly Nullsec people underestimating the importance of the conflict of the borders!
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#16 - 2017-01-16 10:54:44 UTC
Enlighten me on the importance beyond more arms sales and a pressure valve. Last I checked, the various national navies were able to conduct operations unmolested in so called 'occupied' space of the 'enemy'. Both the Amarr Empire and the Caldari State have had recent examples.

I also fail to see where any 'side' has capitalised on taking the entirety of the warzone beyond a shiny medal and a verbal pat on the back for the participants.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Yarosara Ruil
#17 - 2017-01-16 12:55:06 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Enlighten me on the importance beyond more arms sales and a pressure valve.


Nope, that's pretty much it! We live in a war economy after all! But it's important nonetheless!


Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2017-01-16 14:07:26 UTC
I was born out in curse, I owe absolutely nothing to the republic and have spent my time since becoming a capsuleer as a nomad, I rarely spend more than a week or two in any one place.
That being said I also try to keep on at least cordial terms with all of the empires, having navy forces trying to shoot me on site is counter productive to my lifestyle.
I personally don't understand why anyone would willingly bind themselves to any empire, not all chains are made of metal and chems.
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#19 - 2017-01-16 17:10:36 UTC
I may have been born within the borders of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime but I've never really felt any loyalty towards the Federation.

The concept of the nation-state is outdated. The founding members of the Federation recognized this during the first union period, which was considered a post-nationalist coalition where the individual members had far more independence then they do today. Each subsequent union served to centralize power more and more into the hands of the Gallente and as a result the Federation is like a distorted reflection of the intent of it's founders, it has evolved into a war-like nationalist bureaucracy.

In any case, I have not lived in the Federation in some time. I am now located in Syndicate space among the exiled Intaki. I don't know if I would be considered a traitor, but I have been known to engage militia members engaged in military action in Intaki space.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2017-01-16 17:29:03 UTC
I agree with the above. The concept of nations is outdated. We walk among the stars in an infinite universe.

It's all about control. To those who would try to control us, we are traitors. See my recent post for evidence of this.

For those of us who understand the concept of living out in the vast, we know that borders are an imaginary construct on a star chart. Cut those chains of control and there is nothing a person cannot accomplish.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

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