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Assault Frigates need a new role determinating role bonus!!!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#121 - 2017-01-13 06:01:16 UTC
Aaron wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nikea Tiber wrote:
Assault frigates have always sucked


Not true.

Before T3D landed they were one of the more common ships used. As I keep on saying the issue is not with AF its with T3D.


I wouldn't say the issue is with the T3D or AF, the issue is with the people who don't seem to know what situations to use AF's in.



Such as?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zakks
CSR NAVY
Citizen's Star Republic
#122 - 2017-01-13 08:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zakks
First thing I would do is change the -50% MWD sig bonus to a +25% AB bonus for the whole class.

Then rebalance the stats. Loosely applied (these would be adjusted ofc, but roughly 10pts more each)

Ishkur
+10cpu

Enyo
+5cpu
+5pg

Hawk
+20cpu
-10pg

Harpy
+10cpu

Retribution
+10cpu

Vengeance
+20cpu
-10pg

Jaguar
+15cpu
-5pg

Wolf
+15cpu
-5pg

Then look at slot layouts. For example, some of these ships have virtually wasted utility slots due to lack of cpu. Perhaps the Retribution and Jag could give up a utility slot for a mid, or the hawk for a low.

Lastly, a pass through each ship's specific bonuses. An example is the Vengeance with 4/4 missile/turret hardpoints but no bonus to turrets?

As the last of the dozen or so tiericided modules are done these can again be looked over to see that nobody gets out of whack.

My 2-bits, throwing some actual numbers in the fray:)
Overall the entire class could use some cpu, some more than others.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#123 - 2017-01-14 04:56:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aaron wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nikea Tiber wrote:
Assault frigates have always sucked


Not true.

Before T3D landed they were one of the more common ships used. As I keep on saying the issue is not with AF its with T3D.


I wouldn't say the issue is with the T3D or AF, the issue is with the people who don't seem to know what situations to use AF's in.



Such as?


Well, I have used a Hawk to take out an Algos. The Algos had t2 gatlings a small neut, a disruptor and a web. I had a medium ASB and a small shield boost.

I picked my fight carefully and was able to win. I'm pretty sure I could take out most T1 destroyers with either a Hawk or vengeance using ancilliary and good tactics.

People are suggesting that AF become immune from Ewar which is silly. What I meant was with my comment is that people should use an AF for similar scenarios to the one i just mentioned. AF's are just amazing for 1vs1 pvp, I like my range of AF's just the way they are.

I've also used a retribution for ratting in npc 0.0 and been able to kill all rats apart from officers, I was able to stay safe from pvp by fitting a cloak and I have survived many surprise gatecamps using gatecrashing in an AF.

AF's have helped me stay under the radar as you can see, It got to the point where very aggressive enemies didn't even bother pursuing me for just a 30mil kill mail.

I am an AF enthusiast.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#124 - 2017-01-14 07:33:40 UTC
AF's are useful to me in a niche way.
The low sig radius and extra tankiness make them quite useful for killing mission running battleships. Well some of the AF's that is. The gallente ones are particularly capable of cracking 'cap stable' and passive tanks... the vengeance is also handy, but better for battlecruisers than battleships due to it's low DPS. I've seen some folks get results with the Hawk and Harpy before as well, but I generally try to avoid the shield ships.
They do fairly well against ships much larger than them, until they get neuted (neutered) out.

Were I to be wanting to engage in regular gang/fleet/solo pvp activities though I would not choose them. They're too slow to keep up with most other frigates. VS a T3D they simply lose, the dessie is faster, has better damage application and tank usually.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#125 - 2017-01-15 01:45:51 UTC
Why not just give them an extra low or mid slot?
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#126 - 2017-01-15 05:53:31 UTC
Boozbaz wrote:
Why not just give them an extra low or mid slot?


Why not let CCP balance the ships?

This thread seems similar to the one complaining about freighter bumping, some pilots will never accept the way CCP has designed frieghters to be bumped easily.

Now people are here complaining about AF's having limitations. I say accept the game and the ships as they are.

There have been some good posts where pilots have pushed AF's to the limit and in most cases been successful. We should accept whats in this thread as the limit to what AF's can do.

I think AF's are brilliant as they are and I hope CCP ignores this thread until they are ready to do a ship re-balance.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Deckel
Island Paradise
#127 - 2017-01-15 07:57:54 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Boozbaz wrote:
Why not just give them an extra low or mid slot?


Why not let CCP balance the ships?

This thread seems similar to the one complaining about freighter bumping, some pilots will never accept the way CCP has designed frieghters to be bumped easily.

Now people are here complaining about AF's having limitations. I say accept the game and the ships as they are.

There have been some good posts where pilots have pushed AF's to the limit and in most cases been successful. We should accept whats in this thread as the limit to what AF's can do.

I think AF's are brilliant as they are and I hope CCP ignores this thread until they are ready to do a ship re-balance.


I'm pretty sure CCP has already admitted that Assault frigates need some attention.
(I don't have the specific source but may have been mentioned at Eve Vega)
And I'm pretty sure that a large majority of the experienced player base seem to agree that AFs are lacking.

So don't discount suggestions due to one-off stories of their greatness. After all, any ship can find moments of greatness, it does not mean they are good, balanced, or overpowered. That can only be determined though massive trial, error, and isk comparisons.

Eve is an evolving and changing game, and some of those ideas start from here on the forum. The willingness to listen to us and our suggestions is what makes Eve and CCP a great game and game maker. So while you may disagree with the suggestion, don't hate the conversation. Such dialogue is contribution towards progress.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#128 - 2017-01-16 00:18:48 UTC
Deckel wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Boozbaz wrote:
Why not just give them an extra low or mid slot?


Why not let CCP balance the ships?

This thread seems similar to the one complaining about freighter bumping, some pilots will never accept the way CCP has designed frieghters to be bumped easily.

Now people are here complaining about AF's having limitations. I say accept the game and the ships as they are.

There have been some good posts where pilots have pushed AF's to the limit and in most cases been successful. We should accept whats in this thread as the limit to what AF's can do.

I think AF's are brilliant as they are and I hope CCP ignores this thread until they are ready to do a ship re-balance.


I'm pretty sure CCP has already admitted that Assault frigates need some attention.
(I don't have the specific source but may have been mentioned at Eve Vega)
And I'm pretty sure that a large majority of the experienced player base seem to agree that AFs are lacking.

So don't discount suggestions due to one-off stories of their greatness. After all, any ship can find moments of greatness, it does not mean they are good, balanced, or overpowered. That can only be determined though massive trial, error, and isk comparisons.

Eve is an evolving and changing game, and some of those ideas start from here on the forum. The willingness to listen to us and our suggestions is what makes Eve and CCP a great game and game maker. So while you may disagree with the suggestion, don't hate the conversation. Such dialogue is contribution towards progress.


I suppose you're right. I guess I have been conversing with too many narrow minded eve players in my time. Feedback is an important process in designing any application or game you've hit the nail on the head.

On some of the posts here I felt that some pilots were doing stuff like trying to take on a battleship that is known to have a neut fit with an AF, and then claiming they know everything there is to know about AF's. I would say it's about perspective. Me and my corp of 4 guys stayed under the radar for over a year in our assault frigs, we avoided blops very easily. People laughed at us for using only AF's to rat belts but we were the ones taking a good 2 billion a week up to jita in loot and we didnt even rat as often as we could have.

Does anyone have any more AF success stories? or am i all alone on this one? Smile




Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2017-01-16 11:30:41 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Balance is heavily based on usage statistics, and EVE is about to have a new dynamic in the way of alpha clones. I think we'll see a shift where a ship might be objectively bad but see more use because it's accessible to alpha clones. If there's a serious problem with ships in the frigate to cruiser range, part of the solution might be in magically allowing them for alpha clones. Including assault frigates, for example.

That sounds like a good solution to the problem, let Alphas fly all the useless ships. I popped several Alphas recently to get a KM that is worth less than 1M, but with this option I'd get a 30M hull to go with the 200K of sh*t fit. That's gotta make me look a lot more leet and will definitely improve the game.