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Question to the Developers

First post
Author
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-01-13 16:58:28 UTC
Ok lets say i have played this game for a while now .

you guys corrected many issues ( created some new ones but no one is perfect right ) and broken mechanics But this one still remains

Cloacky camping . - are you guys kidding me ? why is this still alowed . one person with few accounts can camp whole aliance for months without any effort what so ever . he need just to train Cyno to lvl 1 and cloak lvl 1 . ( and cloack lvl 5 and cyno lvl 5 is not that hard to skill neither . will take how many 3 Skill injectors ? ) . Now you will tell me that we should form defensive fleets . guard the entrances etc . Its significantly harder to keep defensive fleet over multiple systems or constelations then to let some people has sitting in BOs or Bombers somewhere in POS or NPC station .

Solutions are many for example : why Cloak is not taking cap ( stopped cap regen when cloacked ) Overheating the module - so after some time module would need to be repaired . Which would still alow some form of camping . but people would need to made effort not just make safe cloak and sit go sleep etc. Mining , you need to switch roids compress ore , dich ore in containers . Ratting or missions you have to warp arround target rats shoot . everything requires some kind of effort exept this . You sit in sistem on your laptop for example doing nothing . time to time press directionscan and if see something warp to it light cyno kill it and resume again offline camp .


i know lots of people will start screaming that is it part of game mechanichs and i am carebear etc . Yes i do little mining and carebearing to fund my PvP ships .


so if some Develepor or adming or anyone from CCP could get back to me on this issue and if you at least planning to do something could you respond ? thank you . Also this is going for years . Dont tell me you agree with this mechanic
Maekchu
Doomheim
#2 - 2017-01-13 17:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Oh, another cloaky afk thread. It's good to get some variance from the Alpha whining threads... We needed that.

Also, CCP should just revamp local. Which from my understanding, is what they are trying to do with structures. So just need to wait patiently. In the end however, the solution is probably not something you will like since it sounds like you just want a way to farm in null with no risk.
Lena Crews
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#3 - 2017-01-13 17:07:14 UTC
Can you explain a little more clearly what the problem is?

You just want safer null-sec where you live... right? I thought null-sec was supposed to be more dangerous to live in?
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-01-13 17:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Funki Ellecon
No safer . But at this moment cloak AFK camping is just broken . without any effort you can shut down whole aliance with just maybe 20 bombers ? .

what i want is Even this will need some kind of effort to do . Each 5-10 minutes warp to safe to recharge the cap or repair the module . thats all . would it make Null sec safer ? no . It would just force people to be pro-active in hunting .


Would be also required some response from defenders . To scan the guy down . every time he decloak . Actually hunting not just sit and wait for something to drop on your head
Maekchu
Doomheim
#5 - 2017-01-13 17:17:39 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
No safer . But at this moment cloak AFK camping is just broken . without any effort you can shut down whole aliance with just maybe 20 bombers ? .

what i want is Even this will need some kind of effort to do . Each 5-10 minutes warp to safe to recharge the cap or repair the module . thats all . would it make Null sec safer ? no . It would just force people to be pro-active in hunting .

The amount of effort needed to keep yourself safe in nullsec = none
You just need to keep tabs on intel channels and local

The amount of effort needed to hunt for ratters in nullsec = none
You just need park your afk cloaky in a system and wait for a ratter to rat.

Sounds pretty balanced to me.

If you can't defend your space from 20 bombers, then maybe you don't deserve to keep that space?

In all honesty though, you can't do anything about afk cloaking, before something is done about intel in null in general. As it is now, it's just too easy to just dock up whenever something enters local or intel channels in general. You are not supposed to be safe in null.
Lena Crews
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#6 - 2017-01-13 17:19:35 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
No safer . But at this moment cloak AFK camping is just broken . without any effort you can shut down whole aliance with just maybe 20 bombers ? .

what i want is Even this will need some kind of effort to do . Each 5-10 minutes warp to safe to recharge the cap or repair the module . thats all . would it make Null sec safer ? no . It would just force people to be pro-active in hunting .


But how does it shut it down? It makes it a heck of a lot more risky... of course. But risk/danger is part of the game.

I fly around in lowsec in cloaked explorers all the time. I even warp around occasionally and find where the other players are. I'm sure they're spamming d-scan and on alert because of an unknown player in local... but few run at the sight of a name in local. I'm not shutting down those systems... they're just more alert because I'm there.

I've never been part of a null-sec alliance, so I'm probably clueless on this. I just don't get why the added worry of an enemy fleet being cyno'd in is bad. Content creation, right? Just have a cyno lighter cloaked in your home system to warp in your defense fleet... no? More complicated than that?
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-01-13 17:26:30 UTC
[/quote]
The amount of effort needed to keep yourself safe in nullsec = none
You just need to keep tabs on intel channels and local

The amount of effort needed to hunt for ratters in nullsec = none
You just need park your afk cloaky in a system and wait for a ratter to rat.


you say to keep your alignment to see if you dont bump something keep all the intel channels open checking them all the time to see if something comming compared to Fly to safe cloak done - check every hour if you are active or you can do it every six hours . who cares . ratter even without cloacked person in system has to be on their toes all the time . Or can ratter leave his ship in the anom or belt and leave for several hours ? how that would end ?
Maekchu
Doomheim
#8 - 2017-01-13 17:32:00 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:

you say to keep your alignment to see if you dont bump something keep all the intel channels open checking them all the time to see if something comming compared to Fly to safe cloak done - check every hour if you are active or you can do it every six hours . who cares . ratter even without cloacked person in system has to be on their toes all the time . Or can ratter leave his ship in the anom or belt and leave for several hours ? how that would end ?

Well by that logic, it also takes some effort from the camper to d-scan you down, point you, activate modules, etc etc.

Let's not fool anyone here, null is rather safe for ratters, especially if you control some space and are not in immediate vicinity of fights. Which is why, it's extremely boring for hunters to actually hunt in null, since you guys just dock up as soon something shows on intel or local.

This is the reason why people have ended up just afk-cloaking to lure you out of your homes, when you think you are safe.

As stated before, if you want to fix afk-cloakers, you need to fix local and make it an actual effort to gather that an enemy is in the system with you.
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-01-13 17:32:08 UTC
Lena Crews wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
No safer . But at this moment cloak AFK camping is just broken . without any effort you can shut down whole aliance with just maybe 20 bombers ? .

what i want is Even this will need some kind of effort to do . Each 5-10 minutes warp to safe to recharge the cap or repair the module . thats all . would it make Null sec safer ? no . It would just force people to be pro-active in hunting .


But how does it shut it down? It makes it a heck of a lot more risky... of course. But risk/danger is part of the game.

I fly around in lowsec in cloaked explorers all the time. I even warp around occasionally and find where the other players are. I'm sure they're spamming d-scan and on alert because of an unknown player in local... but few run at the sight of a name in local. I'm not shutting down those systems... they're just more alert because I'm there.

I've never been part of a null-sec alliance, so I'm probably clueless on this. I just don't get why the added worry of an enemy fleet being cyno'd in is bad. Content creation, right? Just have a cyno lighter cloaked in your home system to warp in your defense fleet... no? More complicated than that?



Indeed you are little clueless . in case you are carrier and thats a capital ship or even some Battleship and something decloacks and tackle you . Then even if its 15 bombers you die extremly quickly no chance to anything jump and save you . Only thing and thats only if you have on your alt FAX you can jump and maybe be lucky enought they will take long time to lock you and you would be able to save your ship . Also people dont warp away cause i would gues from your killboard you are not doing HoT drops.
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-01-13 17:35:18 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:

you say to keep your alignment to see if you dont bump something keep all the intel channels open checking them all the time to see if something comming compared to Fly to safe cloak done - check every hour if you are active or you can do it every six hours . who cares . ratter even without cloacked person in system has to be on their toes all the time . Or can ratter leave his ship in the anom or belt and leave for several hours ? how that would end ?

Well by that logic, it also takes some effort from the camper to d-scan you down, point you, activate modules, etc etc.

Let's not fool anyone here, null is rather safe for ratters, especially if you control some space and are not in immediate vicinity of fights. Which is why, it's extremely boring for hunters to actually hunt in null, since you guys just dock up as soon something shows on intel or local.

This is the reason why people have ended up just afk-cloaking to lure you out of your homes, when you think you are safe.

As stated before, if you want to fix afk-cloakers, you need to fix local and make it an actual effort to gather that an enemy is in the system with you.



In that case it anoms should be only visible to owning aliance . and everyone else would need to scan them down . Problem solved . Same issue as with missions . Mission runners dont care about campers . until you scan them down you cant do nothing . both would need to do same activity . It would not be effortless for neither of party . Ratters would need to be still on their toes and hunters would actually need to hunt
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2017-01-13 17:36:37 UTC
Cloaky camping is an attacker's tool. If you don't use it of course you will dislike it. Just get one guy with several accounts to camp back, apparently they're within jump range.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#12 - 2017-01-13 17:38:44 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2017-01-13 17:39:40 UTC
Learn from Low-sec people on how to live and stay safe in space:

- Fly with friends. That's right... rat with friends, do anomolies with friends... and set up your ships to compliment each h other. One is good at killing NPCs, one is good at nuking fragile cyno ships (or ECMing them to allow for escape).
Awwwwwww... not earning as much ISK as you used to? Suck it up buttercup. You have to make a trade-off to stay safer... and you are earning more money than you would cowering in a station.

- Use different ships. If you can run an anomaly or NPC haven in a faster, cheaper, and/or more mobile ship... do so. You do not need to run things in the slowest, most expensive, and tanky ship possible.
Remember... the cloaked ship needs to get within range of you first. And they cannot use any propulsion modules.
If you are burning around a site at 700-1000 m/sec... it is MUCH harder to get close enough to pin you down.

- set up traps. You only need to do this a few times, not every time.
The idea is to create uncertainty for the cloaky camper (you know... the same way afk-ing for hours cloaked up creates uncertainty).



Really what it comes down to is that you want to get rid of any uncertainty in the systems you live in OP.
And right now, afk-cloaking is the ONLY form of small-scale uncertainty that exists in Null-sec systems (outside of interceptor gangs, but even those are easily avoided if reported quickly enough).
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-13 17:40:10 UTC
the thing is you will never know if they are in jump range or not . BO can be in open space anywhere . How hard is just to get BO to safe in some space and do mid jumps . There is no way of knowing whats arround you . and who is in Jump range . i can just take my accounts and start camping some system on the other side of the galaxy
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2017-01-13 17:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
As there is currently a Dedicated Threadnought in Player Features and Ideas Sub Form. I will close this thread as redundant..

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.