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FC's lying about being NewBro friendly.

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Author
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#21 - 2017-01-11 05:27:16 UTC
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
And now, having read some of your (hilarious) guide, I'm betting that the core problem was that you spent a lot of time advocating horrible fittings in a supremely obnoxious manner.

I'm going to be blunt: You haven't the foggiest notion of what you're talking about.

No, you absolutely DO NOT put some small autocannons on your railgun ship as an anti-drone point defense system, unless your strategy is to induce a case of fatal hilarity in your opponents after they see your lossmail.



Yeah, so the standard stuff that actually works in the real world ( the Phalanx Weapon System ) shouldn't be used in EVE. Because it's really easy for Battleships to hit Frigates...

Or you are the one who does not know what is going on. Try researching how Turret Tracking actually works.


For example:

Pulses, Heavy, on a boggie APOC. Max Tracking of about 8-ish without boost if your Gunnery Skills are in the 3-4 bracket.

Beams, medium, on said Boggie APOC, and Max Tracking jumps to 15. Oh my...

It's why 1940's to 1960's real Battle Ships had both big guns AND little guns. CCP honours A LOT of genuine scientific processes in this game.

But some gamer kiddie web-coder would not understand real science & ballistics.


Anyway, you're boring. Go mixed-ratting in a boat with just large slow turrets, and watch yourself go pop.



Your Phalanx-system in eve is a ship like a destroyer or a cruiser with good tracking that takes care of the small stuff. Mixing different sizes of guns just makes you r overall DPS and damage-application bad at all circumstances. Also, most battleships have a dronebay for dealing with frigates.

Wormholer for life.

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#22 - 2017-01-11 05:27:17 UTC
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
And now, having read some of your (hilarious) guide, I'm betting that the core problem was that you spent a lot of time advocating horrible fittings in a supremely obnoxious manner.

I'm going to be blunt: You haven't the foggiest notion of what you're talking about.

No, you absolutely DO NOT put some small autocannons on your railgun ship as an anti-drone point defense system, unless your strategy is to induce a case of fatal hilarity in your opponents after they see your lossmail.



Yeah, so the standard stuff that actually works in the real world ( the Phalanx Weapon System ) shouldn't be used in EVE. Because it's really easy for Battleships to hit Frigates...

Or you are the one who does not know what is going on. Try researching how Turret Tracking actually works.


For example:

Pulses, Heavy, on a boggie APOC. Max Tracking of about 8-ish without boost if your Gunnery Skills are in the 3-4 bracket.

Beams, medium, on said Boggie APOC, and Max Tracking jumps to 15. Oh my...

It's why 1940's to 1960's real Battle Ships had both big guns AND little guns. CCP honours A LOT of genuine scientific processes in this game.

But some gamer kiddie web-coder would not understand real science & ballistics.


Anyway, you're boring. Go mixed-ratting in a boat with just large slow turrets, and watch yourself go pop.

Don't fit your ship to mitigate your weaknesses.

Fit your ship to your strengths, and use your brains to not get into situations where your weaknesses matter.

You are fitting your ship in a one-size-fits-all way. Stop that.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#23 - 2017-01-11 06:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
And now, having read some of your (hilarious) guide, I'm betting that the core problem was that you spent a lot of time advocating horrible fittings in a supremely obnoxious manner.

I'm going to be blunt: You haven't the foggiest notion of what you're talking about.

No, you absolutely DO NOT put some small autocannons on your railgun ship as an anti-drone point defense system, unless your strategy is to induce a case of fatal hilarity in your opponents after they see your lossmail.



Yeah, so the standard stuff that actually works in the real world ( the Phalanx Weapon System ) shouldn't be used in EVE. Because it's really easy for Battleships to hit Frigates...

Or you are the one who does not know what is going on. Try researching how Turret Tracking actually works.


For example:

Pulses, Heavy, on a boggie APOC. Max Tracking of about 8-ish without boost if your Gunnery Skills are in the 3-4 bracket.

Beams, medium, on said Boggie APOC, and Max Tracking jumps to 15. Oh my...

It's why 1940's to 1960's real Battle Ships had both big guns AND little guns. CCP honours A LOT of genuine scientific processes in this game.

But some gamer kiddie web-coder would not understand real science & ballistics.


Anyway, you're boring. Go mixed-ratting in a boat with just large slow turrets, and watch yourself go pop.


Correct. Standard stuff that works in the real world should not be assumed to work in Eve.

So, first of all, you need to read this, because it likely concerns you.

Secondly, Eve is a lot of things, but what it most assuredly is not is "the real world". "Point defense" is a concept on real-world warships because real-world warships don't, for example, "tank" an anti-ship missile. Instead, they get headshot and everyone dies screaming. It's not remotely comparable to combat in Eve.

What actually happens in Eve is that you neuter your raw DPS and, then, on top of that, you ensure that portions of your DPS are basically unusable at different ranges, resulting in a gimpy POS comedy-fit that everyone will link to their friends and, perhaps, return to for a quick chuckle when they're feeling a bit blue.

There are VASTLY better ways for a big ship to deal with small ships that don't require rendering themselves effectively useless. Some examples include:

-Drones
-Webs and grapplers
-Application mods (painters/computers/etc)
-Neuts
-MJDs
-Friends

Finally, a word about ratting: For most of us, if we rat at all, it's a fairly mundane chore that's performed to knock out some cash. Nobody really enjoys it - it's just a cash generating mechanism. Some aspects of Eve can be described as an art, but this is something that has largely been reduced to a science, with specific fits and techniques that have been tweaked and tweaked again to produce the largest bounty ticks with the least effort.

Nobody, but nobody, is mixing in some small autocannons with their real guns on their ratting fits. You can't "point defense" your way into big bounty ticks, and the suggestion that you'll pop if you go ratting with a ship that isn't fit in the uniquely horrible way you've devised is possibly the most hilarious thing I'll read today.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#24 - 2017-01-11 06:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
Get a new phone, my site does nothing iffy.


apart from the eye watering colour scheme? the text is nigh on unreadable.


Gizzie Haslack wrote:

Bunch of boats go through a Wormhole. Wormhole collapses, cutting off half the fleet. FC completely unprepared..


this is a known hazard of using wormholes and it's something rather difficult to prepare for.

Gizzie Haslack wrote:
You do the flying, get to break even if you die if it's in fleet, and someone else makes an actual profit ( the BB managers ). You make them money by being there, they can't do it without you, and they don't pay you. Bit of a Jita Scam I feel.


*Most* public fleets have an 'All Loot To FC/Hunter' policy. The FC provides you with content, you provide the FC with DPS. That's the agreement you're making when you join a public fleet. If you're expecting a share of the rewards beyond killmails, then you need to step up to the plate and start providing content for others.

Just about every Black Ops fleet I've ever led or been a part of has had an All Loot To The Hunter policy. You do the hunting and find a target, you make the tackle, you light the covert cyno (have you seen the training time for Cyno V)?, THEN, and only then, do you get the loot (AFTER paying out for anyone's ship losses usually).

Look at it this way, my hunter/tackler is usually either a Tengu or a Proteus that runs around ISK800m. My Black Ops Battleship that bridges all you adorable newbros out to the target is another ISK1.8b. Fuel to bridge you all will run another ISK8m/tank (I may need several tanks of fuel to bridge everyone including a fuel truck, jump then bridge back).

So, I've thrown ~ISK2.6b on field (plus the Fuel Truck). You, on the other hand, have turned up with an ISK25m bomber to take a bridge when told to bridge and shoot something that someone elses effort and hard work found for you to shoot.

Now do you understand why you don't get the lewts?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#25 - 2017-01-11 06:52:12 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Gizzie Haslack wrote:

My guide is here:

http://gothfiles.org.uk/EVE

All free. Enjoy yourselves. I'm not like them :)



This might be a little off topic but are those suggestions good?

Some nice ships and fittings.



They're remarkably bad fittings (The beam-AB-long point punisher, for instance, seems almost intentionally designed to be useless at every range. No speed to kite, no tracking for brawling, horrible tank, two lows wasted on cap mods, etc.).

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#26 - 2017-01-11 07:00:44 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Gizzie Haslack wrote:

My guide is here:

http://gothfiles.org.uk/EVE

All free. Enjoy yourselves. I'm not like them :)



This might be a little off topic but are those suggestions good?

Some nice ships and fittings.



They're remarkably bad fittings (The beam-AB-long point punisher, for instance, seems almost intentionally designed to be useless at every range. No speed to kite, no tracking for brawling, horrible tank, two lows wasted on cap mods, etc.).



Those fits are a on a whole new level of awful. Please don't try them.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Keno Skir
#27 - 2017-01-11 12:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
1. Correct me if I missed something, but it seems you tried to join a purely cloak fleet with a character that cannot fit a cloak and are now upset. You also think "newbro friendly" means newbros can fly anything they want regardless if it works in the fleet setup, which is also false. Fleets where you can bring what you like are called "kitchen sink" fleets. Most likely in an uncloaked vessel you would have got everyone killed or at least scared away most targets.

2. 10 Million SP is a new bro.

3. Spending 40 a month on ISK won't make you better at the game. Spending 0 a month is a better route to being good at EvE.

4. The secrets you think you know about Bombers Bar are actually well known tactics, not special secrets.

Couldn't fit the doctrine, I'd guess and say pg issues or something like that.

The mistake was questioning the doctrine because she couldn't fit it.

That rookie guide keept trying to download crap onto my phone, sorry love but nope.
Put that information on a web page and link to that because what you have seems mad sketchy,
not accusing you of anything now , just I don't want it on my phone or my PC.
I definitely wouldn't appreciate that just before a fleet.
Also why is a rookie pilot giving rookies advice ?



Get a new phone, my site does nothing iffy.

Maybe the Rookie knows tactics better than the 'children' who were managers at the time? This game does pick up military & ex-military players after all.


For example: Bunch of uncloaked Bombers sitting on their side of the wormhole waiting for the 'go' command. Bombs Away? Bye-bye Bomber's Bar fleet. Suicide Gank.

Or...

Bunch of boats go through a Wormhole. Wormhole collapses, cutting off half the fleet. FC completely unprepared.

Or...

You do the flying, get to break even if you die if it's in fleet, and someone else makes an actual profit ( the BB managers ). You make them money by being there, they can't do it without you, and they don't pay you. Bit of a Jita Scam I feel.



But let's not listen to this Rookie eh?

I know I'm no god, but when the FC's are knobs with deep-pockets it kinda puts you off a crowd. Whoever funds said FC's might want to think about that. Can you afford to pump in PLEX's like it's a Slot Machine?

Oh, and I only spend £20 a month on ISK top-up at present . The rest is simply running 2 Mains for PvP stuff.



I have no issue with EVE being a challenge. I have got a problem with people pumping money in like it's a slot machine, whilst bashing NewBros ( NewBro loot is crap, so why even do it? ). Gaming is supposed to be fun, or CCP goes out of business ( they did the Alphas for a reason ).

I guess if you're into Internet Bullying you just won't understand that.


You're not a commando so stop hinting at real world skills. You've actually been offered some legit advice, which you have thrown away much like you probably did the advice in bombers bar. In several years of BB running fleets I've never heard anyone say a bad thing (even as a target) so the evidence kind of suggests the following :

1. You have 0 idea what you're talking about regarding EvE, it's playerbase or any tactics military or monetary contained within.

2. You have a bad attitude, preferring to bluff and shout than admit you're new and don't understand things yet.

3. If there are 2 things you should likely avoid for a while, they are Giving Advice to Other New Players and Web Design.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#28 - 2017-01-12 03:30:35 UTC
I've a friend that FCs fleets in bombers bar after 3 months of play...they're definitely newbro friendly.

That said, you'd not be welcome in any of my fleets, newbro or not, because of your horrible attitude.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#29 - 2017-01-12 03:55:03 UTC
reading OP's replies, well, he's definitely sounds like an a$$.

this is a whine post and has no place in NCQA, IB4L.

Just Add Water

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#30 - 2017-01-12 04:09:42 UTC
Morgan has been amused by the words of this thread, including the infinite wisdom of the OP.

Those fits are amazing, Morgan is jealous.

Morgan wishes to be more like the OP.

Morgan has an incomplete life.

Poor Morgan.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#31 - 2017-01-12 04:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Yep... and here above we have 20 posts illustrating the OP's point. Don't say you're newbro friendly of you're not newbro friendly. It's false advertising. If you obviously don't want the newbro's don't ask for them and you wont get them. Then everyone will be happy.

In my corp we are newbro friendly, because, we are all new. So having gone through those learning experiences recently does give us some sympathy toward others going through the same. I must say however that when it comes to tactics and fittings I learn a lot every day. We exchange and learn from each other - and I encourage my corp to experiment. Even though we're pretty flexible with fittings, I do tend to designate a few basic roles and fit those ships to meet them.

That is the difference with a small gang. When you only have 3 or 4 people the kitchen sink can work really well. We have Skirmish, Point, Logi, and Screen. As long as the ship is properly fitted for one of those jobs I don't care too much how it's fitted. As long as we have consistency of prop, tank type, ship size, and the fit is sound, I don't care too much about it.

It's all part of the learning experience. So play round with it and see what works. Small gang and solo PvP requires much more creativity. So maybe you should start there OP. Being a mindless fleet drone doesn't seem to agree with you.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#32 - 2017-01-12 04:55:05 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
newbro friendly

key word there.
friendliness requires reciprocation.
acting the maggot isnt conducive to a friendly environment Blink
mkint
#33 - 2017-01-12 13:36:08 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Yep... and here above we have 20 posts illustrating the OP's point. Don't say you're newbro friendly of you're not newbro friendly. It's false advertising. If you obviously don't want the newbro's don't ask for them and you wont get them. Then everyone will be happy.

In my corp we are newbro friendly, because, we are all new. So having gone through those learning experiences recently does give us some sympathy toward others going through the same. I must say however that when it comes to tactics and fittings I learn a lot every day. We exchange and learn from each other - and I encourage my corp to experiment. Even though we're pretty flexible with fittings, I do tend to designate a few basic roles and fit those ships to meet them.

That is the difference with a small gang. When you only have 3 or 4 people the kitchen sink can work really well. We have Skirmish, Point, Logi, and Screen. As long as the ship is properly fitted for one of those jobs I don't care too much how it's fitted. As long as we have consistency of prop, tank type, ship size, and the fit is sound, I don't care too much about it.

It's all part of the learning experience. So play round with it and see what works. Small gang and solo PvP requires much more creativity. So maybe you should start there OP. Being a mindless fleet drone doesn't seem to agree with you.

Um, does your newbro corp have one loud guy yelling "we should play this like WoW!!! I'll be tank, so you guys don't need to fit any shields! No, you're doing it wrong!" and then get you all killed? Because that's what the OP is doing. He deserves to be kicked out of every corp he joins. He deserves to be kicked in the nuts for writing that "guide." I've seen full blown trolls and griefers who were less annoying and less dangerous to everyone around them.

It's one thing to be "friendly" it's another thing entirely to say "hey, all that stupid stuff you're saying and doing. Yeah, it's awesome. Let's all be a corp of Leroys!"

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Demonspawn 666
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2017-01-12 14:16:34 UTC
Gizzie Haslack wrote:


Can we get this added to the Golden rules of EVE?

Number 9. DO NOT FOLLOW ANYTHING IN THIS GUIDE

That is just awful..... much much awfulness.

And yes, I'm still fairly new and plodded away solo in HIsec for quite a while, I know how tough it can be.
Newbies, do not listen to this rubbish, get out there, join a corp, follow the recommended guides ( not this drivel), ask questions of everyone you interact with here on the forums or ingame and have fun.

The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!

TDR Recruitment

ISD Lyrin Rands
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#35 - 2017-01-12 15:28:35 UTC
I completely understand that it can be frustrating as a new player. There are plenty of corps who do take completely new players and help get you involved in fleets early on. I suggest in the future to let the recruiter know your situation more specifically so you both are on the same page about your skill level etc. Good luck, I really hope you find a corp that you fit in with. Don't forget to check out the new player help channel in game.

However, I'm locking this topic since it breaks one of our forum rules.

Quote:

3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

ISD Lyrin Rands

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

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